Why Are Religions So "controlling"?

[southern california guy]

Why are religions so "controlling"?  I am not talking about the religious teaching being controlling of the people who practice them but rather the other people in the religious group trying to control each other within the group.

 

To be fair I have seen this the least within the Catholic religion -- but I have still seen it a bit.  

 

In college I joined the various Christian groups -- really for social reasons rather than anything else.  And it seemed that in the first couple of meetings of the school year people seemed to be trying to size one another up -- and put each other in slots. Then it would kind of break into groups with varying status and influence.  And if you weren't careful somebody might decide that you didn't really have the sort of "Personal relationship with Jesus" that you needed, and you found yourself continually harassed by people asking if you really understood what it meant to be a Christian -- and wanting to explain it to me (I found myself wondering what I was doing wrong, that made people want to continually do this to me).

 

At the Protestant Church I attended I found myself constantly being "asked" to help.  Like I would go to a social -- a potluck with some food cooked by the church -- and I would be asked to help set up the tables and chairs.  Then I would be asked to help in the kitchen.  Then I would be asked to help serve food.. I would try to eat some food myself, and talk to the Pastor -- who was always talking to the wealthier families who contributed the most money -- and I would be asked to get drinks from the kitchen.  Maybe coffee.  And I would end up walking around serving people coffee.  Then afterwards I would naturally help clean up.  I found it a little annoying because I realized that was my "role" in the group..  

 

At the Catholic church in Utah I would always have people run over to me and ask me to help seat people, carry the gifts, help with the collections, etc, at Mass.  I suppose I should have been flattered but I honestly found it a little annoying.  I sort of wanted a little quiet time to myself to pray and listen to the sermon and think about the readings.

 

Utah was something else though.  I have never seen such a controlling, manipulative, dishonest group of people as the Mormons.  At work people were always asking you about your religion -- and you would get put in a "slot" at work!!  The Bishop of your Ward (neighborhood) might even come to your place of employment and talk with your boss about you..  Because he was "concerned" about you.....  In Utah people sort of wanted to tell you where to work, who to date, etc.  And as a group they would get together and push you (I am talking about the other people in your neighborhood).  I did not like it.  I wanted more privacy, and respect.  The rumors that were spread in Utah were unbelievable.  People might say "I heard you aren't married and you are a homosexual.  You are not really a homosexual are you?"  Then they would want to set you up with a "nice" girl -- divorced, with kids.....

[blazeingstar]

People want community.  I think that it should be expected to do some voulenteer work or contribute to your parish.

 

Protestants are founded on social ties, so of course they are going to put more emphasis on that.  They do "need" to know what you believe becuase to them, church is like a shirt, and if you don't fit into their guidelines they don't want you.  They don't have doctrine, just similar interests.  They are sometimes less coherent than a Bronie colony.

 

As far as mormons...you must of been in a bad circle.  The momans I know, albeit they are young mormons, are very socially graceful, not preachy, very concerned about the world and social issues in a positive way.  More mormans voulenteer and staff mother Teresa's orphanages than Catholic young people.  They do not do it to prostelitize, but becuase they can help meet a need.

 

The FLDS do have some strange beliefs, are very controlling, etc, but that's like saying the XXPX or whatever denounced traddy group represents Catholics.

Edited January 22, 2014 by blazeingstar

[southern california guy]

I don't really want to get into discussing Mormonism, but I will say that they had impressed me so much that I moved to Utah. However I saw a very different face of it in Utah. It can become very much about control and power.

I didn't really finish my thought in the first post. I meant to ask what can you do to avoid problems in religious groups? Is there much of anything you can do? Is there anything the Priest or Pastor can do to make the group feel less controlling to the members?

[blazeingstar]

Well, I'd say you need a solid parish life.  I would avoid radical groups, even those who adhere to TLM only as they tend to be very radical and controlling. I would feel much better around even the mormons you speak of than many TLM in the US northeast as they tend to be so radicalized it's not even funny.

 

I think you should come to terms with the fact that SOME involvement is necessary.  Perhaps you can volunteer to do what you are most comfortable with.  For me, taking up the collection and at times attending a Bible study, or serving food at a picnic was good.  I think when people see a regular acting like a bump on a log they can feel very alienated and in a parish where they want others to feel loved and welcomed this can be disconcerting.

 

If it's one parishoner that's causing trouble, I'd approach the priest and say "Hi, I'm new here and joining your parish.  I feel very nervous about my place becuase XYZ keeps asking me to do ABC and I'm really not comfortable.  What would you suggest I do?"

 

I know you are recently married and have a little one on the way.  I think that being involved in a parish is key especially if your wife will be staying at home with the baby. Mom's groups, knitting/quilting, prayer groups are vital for young mothers who may feel isolated very quickly without help or family around.

[arfink]

I would say some of the things you saw about Mormonism in Utah would be pretty typical. My fiancee was a Mormon, and said that such behavior was fairly typical. The Mormons in Utah are especially bad about it, more so than Mormons in other states. I think it's more like a political thing.

 

That said, I don't think it's because they are religious that they are controlling. Those two propositions don't seem to be connected, as you obviously know of religious people who are not controlling.

[CatherineM]

I always explain to my boys that to be a member of society they have to learn to control themselves, or society will control them against their will. I always find it interesting when people complain about the church trying to control them, yet are quite willing to follow the rules to belong to a gym or country club or even a fantasy football league.

[southern california guy]

I always explain to my boys that to be a member of society they have to learn to control themselves, or society will control them against their will. I always find it interesting when people complain about the church trying to control them, yet are quite willing to follow the rules to belong to a gym or country club or even a fantasy football league.

I've been kicked out of gyms... They felt I was lifting too "heavy". Now I belong to the nicest most laid back gym you can imagine.

I don't particularly like any group or organization that makes me constantly feel like I am holding my breath -- for fear of somebody making the most out of any mistake I make. Or any group that doesn't feel I do enough for them.

I work as a truck driver -- now I drive locally -- and when I would go to church on my first morning back at home it was hard to help out when I was almost too Tired to be there. I felt like the second that they saw me they were going to "put me in my place".. I ended up not going on my days off and it was honestly a huge relief. It was like I had no conflicts in my life when I wasn't involved with a religion. Edited January 22, 2014 by southern california guy

[NotreDame]

SC Guy, you have been to some weird churches.  I go to mass all the time and people never even talk to me unless I initiate it.  There is no easier religion to both participate and remain anonymous than the Catholic faith.

 

You are in Escondido... If you want to make absolutely sure people don't talk to you, go to a Spanish mass.

[PhuturePriest]

I've been kicked out of gyms... They felt I was lifting too "heavy". Now I belong to the nicest most laid back gym you can imagine.

I don't particularly like any group or organization that makes me constantly feel like I am holding my breath -- for fear of somebody making the most out of any mistake I make. Or any group that doesn't feel I do enough for them.

I work as a truck driver -- now I drive locally -- and when I would go to church on my first morning back at home it was hard to help out when I was almost too Tired to be there. I felt like the second that they saw me they were going to "put me in my place".. I ended up not going on my days off and it was honestly a huge relief. It was like I had no conflicts in my life when I wasn't involved with a religion.

 

My experiences with protestant congregations is that their number one priority is "community" and "fellowship". They don't believe in authority when it comes to matters of doctrine and faith, so why would they go to a church in the first place? The answer, quite simply, is to socialize. That's why protestant services typically cater to fellowship and community, with hand-holding and the whole shebang, and afterwards, everyone goes to have lunch together and they talk and socialize during that. My impression on protestant churches is that they are closer to social clubs than anything else. That's why you can literally get kicked out of a protestant church. in the Catholic Church, you literally can't be "kicked out". You can be excommunicated or it can be deemed due to some conflicting beliefs you can't receive the Eucharist, but even if you are excommunicated, you are always welcome to go to Mass and social church gatherings. Of course, there are Catholic parishes that act more as social clubs than an actual Church, but that's not how it's supposed to be, and I've never encountered one like that before.

[PhuturePriest]

SC Guy, you have been to some weird churches.  I go to mass all the time and people never even talk to me unless I initiate it.  There is no easier religion to both participate and remain anonymous than the Catholic faith.

 

You are in Escondido... If you want to make absolutely sure people don't talk to you, go to a Spanish mass.

 

Precisely. The only person I ever talk to during Mass is the Priest. This usually happens if I'm serving, or on my way out when I shake his hand and say "Good evening/morning, Father." I honestly can't remember the last non-cleric I spoke to at a parish, and the only times I can remember those instances are when people ask me where the confessional or bathroom are.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

You have the right to say no. Sometimes saying no to other people is saying yes to the holy spirit. Not saying don't ever help others and serve, but sometimes we have to serve our relationship with God as you seem to be asking for permission to do. :) I give you permission brother.

 

Also you said you pray and wan't time to pray and be alone with God. So with your new found time with God by saying no sometimes perhaps you can pray for those in your religious group whom seem to be controlling or boss or whomsoever, if you still find you don't have the time set the time aside at the end of each day to think about all the people you feel have seemed to be trying to assert unfair control over you and pray for them even if it's when you lay down for however long before you go to bed and if you find you keep falling asleep than pray for however long before you lay down each day, and don't worry about how long or not long you pray for, just do it. :) Miracles will happen brother in you brother. :) And don't forget to pray for yourself also a little in this time. I hope it all works out for you, jesus says "seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened." he doesn't mention though how long we will be knocking or seeking for, keep at it bro st paul also says " persistence bears fruits of hope." If you seek to love and be loved by God you will find this, if you seek to have faith and take each day as it comes you will find this, if you seek to hope to meet good people, you will find them. Chin up brother and keep coming back to phatmass, your welcome to private message me any time, i may not have great information but we can be phatmass phriends, sure can.   :)

 

Onward christian souls.

 

God is Good.

 

Jesus iz LORD.

 

P.S.All this said 'if you don't already do all this', and if you do keep it up your doing great. :)

Edited January 22, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Norseman82]

Chalk it up to human nature and don't be afraid to tell people to back off.

[Guest]

Ya I never get talked to or bothered at Mass...I fly way under the radar...One of my favorite things about being Catholic...

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

At least from my Catholic perspective, When I ask someone to help with those jobs I'm trying to say to them, "hey there is this need and I see you as a good and trustworthy example".  I never intend to put someone in there place...honestly I've never even considered that, so thank-you for the perspective...I think a good response if someone asks you to do something you don't want to is simple to thank them for asking, but that such or such would prove to be a distraction for you and you would rather not. Even growing up protestant I saw being asked to help as an inclusion to the group more than sloting people like you described. 

[CatholicsAreKewl]

This threads out of control!