Slappo Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 This is true but magnanimity and justice take precedence over the virtue of humility when necessary. Using the virtues according to need is managed and directed by the infused virtue of wisdom. Flaw: You are assuming that magnanimity and justice are contrary to humility. One can be just, magnanimous, and humble all at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Just read a few pages and then you'll know if it is from Christ and if it is about His Life. The Mormons say the exact same thing about the Book of Mormon. And for those interested, this is actually what Pope Pius XII said about her: "Publish this work as it is. There is no need to give an opinion on its origin, whether it be extraordinary or not: whoever reads it will understand. [These days] we hear of so many visions and revelations. I am not saying that all of them would be true, but there can be some of them that are authentic." That's not approval. That's deciding to let it be published without him giving his opinion. So there really isn't any clear, distinct papal approval of her writings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Just read a few pages and then you'll know if it is from Christ and if it is about His Life. What if I told you that I read a few pages and strongly believe it is not from Christ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 John XXIII put it on the Index of Forbidden books. It's in the wikipedia page that's referenced a few times in this thread. That's a condemnation. Even though the index was abolished, the Italian conference of bishops still insisted that when her book was published, a note be inserted in the front to ensure readers knew that "visions" were not real visions but a literary device used by the author. That's also quoted in the wiki article that has been linked multiple times. Name the 8 bishops. Until you do, I have to assume that you can't, and if you can't, it's no better than making it up. Look, Julian, for something to be legitimate you need two things - a call felt by the individual and a confirmation of that call by the Church. That's how the Church works. We've got the part from the individual - she felt called or chosen by God to impart these messages. But the Church's confirmation of it is at best mixed and at worst a condemnation. Most Catholics won't bother with anything that seems a bit odd or different if it only has at best a mixed approval from Church authority. What you're telling me about Maria isn't nearly compelling or self-evidently in line with Church tradition enough for me to ignore that at best mixed approval. That is still not pope saying nope. And for the 8 Bishops I already posted links. Go back and reread some of my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Dear, calling someone a lying sinner when they disagree with you isn't very magnanimous. Layer makes himself uncomfortable not me. Pope never put it on index or said nope. It may have been Congregation of Faith...something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) ....and why wouldn't this be on the Vatican website? http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/csaints/ It seems to me that we know the results of last years. Maybe Google Translate is bad but I don't see it. I am not sure. Strange indeed. Maybe a Modernist manages the website but that is probably not possible. Very strange. I will look in to it. Edited January 21, 2014 by Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 well, color me relieved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 That is still not pope saying nope. And for the 8 Bishops I already posted links. Go back and reread some of my posts. Our most sincere apologies for being daft, but could you list their names simply and clearly with links to the speaches/writings in which they said this. You have posted quite a bit and it is my fear that it is lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 By a decree of 5 January 1960, published on instructions of Pope John XXIII, the Holy Office condemned the completed work and included it in the Index Librorum Prohibitorum. If that's not a papal condemnation I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 You could just read your own link and copy and paste the names of the 8 Bishops. You tend to post a million links per post, you see, so for the more dull ones among us, it might be prudent to simply type the names out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 If that's not a papal condemnation I don't know what is. But everyone knows that if 8 lowly Bishops approve it, it overrides Papal authority. The Church is a democracy. Everyone knows that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Err....and God waited until 2000 years after the Gospels were well established to teach people about His life? Sorry, we already have all of that in a book we call the Bible. In 2000 years of history I don't think there has been one approved apprition or writing that added to what Christ had lead the church to put in the Bible. Why is she any different than those (very condemned) who propogate the "Book of Thomas" or others? You can say the same thing about Agreda or the teachings of the doctors of the Church. Why didn't God create them all in the fifth or sixth century. Why.... Has an answer according to times and need. Valtorta is for now and need is great. Edited January 21, 2014 by Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 You can say the same thing about Agreda or the teachings of the doctors of the Church. Why didn't God create them all in the fifth or sixth century. Why.... Has an answer according to times and need. Valtorta is for now and need is great. Jullian, the doctor's didn't teach on Christ's life and add bits in. They looked at history and what Christ taught and how it related to modern questions. Theology developed from the Bible, not as an additional narritive. Add-ons to Christ's life have always been condemned. Certainly, there were much darker times for the Church than these past few decades. Why would God change everything now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) The Doctors were very intelligent men, and knew it unwise to add things. Edited January 21, 2014 by FuturePriest387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Flaw: You are assuming that magnanimity and justice are contrary to humility. One can be just, magnanimous, and humble all at the same time. Yes but in this order, if the situation calls for it: Justice, magnanimity and humilty. If you think, justice is humility; give each what belongs to them. So, if you speak truth and other person is not, it is not your faut they feel offended. In this way they will learn humilty, justice and their place. Everything to its place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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