Why Is My Everything...topic Locked?

[MIKolbe]

your argument is indisputable

[arfink]

Jesus gave a standard by which to judge.......by the fruits...not pears. Spiritual fruits in this case would be conversions, conversions, conversions or strengthening of the Faith. Just in my family there have been a few of them attributed to Valtorta. There is few people who became priests because of her writings. I watched few people giving their testimonies and conversion experiences on YouTube. I never heard a testimony of someone leaving the Faith because of Valtorta. That's ridiculous. Even if you read one page of Valtorta there is something divine, good and right about them; hence even high Church officials and scholars give positive opinions. Positive opinion means also no DOGMATIC or MORAL errors.  Read one page of Valtorta and listen to your Church sermons in N. America and Europe and watch how Catholics dress, behave and live their Faith in these region particularly. Talk about collective possession of conscience; Paganism, they have been converted back to paganism. Remember even saints talk about this False Church and false church does not come to existence if it does not have false Catholics, false Christians, Modernists I guess.

 

Let he who is without sin draw his flamethrower first. Feeling lucky?

 

We're just reporting the facts. If you'd like to accuse a man who became Pope of something, go ahead and do it.
 

[Julian]

Actually, it appears she is.  A quick google search to more trusted websites reveal that her work had been placed on the forbidden books and that no less than Ratzinger himself has given clear guidance to Bishop's that her work has no supernatural origin.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Valtorta#Holy_See.27s_reaction_to_publication

 

http://www.ewtn.com/library/scriptur/valtorta.txt

 

Faustina's work being placed on the forbidden books list was the result of poor translations from Polish during the cold war.  That's not the case for Maria Valtorta, whose native language and work was Italian

 

More trusted sources are the ones which present the truth of her writing completely. Not a priest, theologian, apologetic who cuts the sentence in half and says this is what she means....blah, blah. All of these have been debunked:

And that about Ratzinger is not true:

1985: A priest writes a letter to Cardinal Ratzinger, then Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, inquiring about the distribution of the writing once placed on the Index. Eight months later, Cardinal Ratzinger sends a response to Cardinal Siri, in which he diplomatically recapitulated the history of events, and concludes noting the condemnations necessity to “neutralize the damages which such a publication could bring to the more unprepared faithful”. [16] ¹⁶

[16] There appears to be multiple English translations of this document circulating on the Internet, some of which contain significant errors in key statements [ex. see; Response to Colin B. Donovan]. Upon reading an accurate translation [see Apendix I], it becomes immediately evident that Cardinal Ratzinger avoids passing judgment—either positively or negatively—by restating the history of events. Far from being a negative judgment, the Cardinal simply highlights events of history, and states that diffusion of the Poem, at the time, was "not held to be opportune". The final statement, as quoted above, restricts the range of the condemnation further, limiting it to the “more unprepared faithful” (of which one interpretation could refer to those who lack good catechesis, who would attach themselves too strongly to the Poem, effectively elevating a private revelation above public revelation). At most, this text could be interpretted as a cautionary caveat; however a negaitve judgment it is not.

 

Here is the text of Ratzinger: http://www.bardstown.com/~brchrys/Chrchval.html

He just avoided passing judgment.

 

Read the real explanations in this work:

http://www.mariavaltortawebring.com/Documents/PMG_Research_Document.pdf

Also:

http://www.bardstown.com/~brchrys/

 

I mean who cares at what happend 50 yrs. ago or so. 8 Bishops have approved it since, so it is good to read.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Julian

[Basilisa Marie]

The problem is that she claimed her "Visions" of the life of Christ were of supernatural origin. 

 

 

Again in 1983, Cardinal Ratzinger wrote to Bishop Raymond James Boland of Birmingham, Alabama, in response to a letter a member of Bishop Boland's diocese had sent to him. He recalled the notes that the Congregation had already issued for the guidance of the faithful and that had been published on various numbers of L'Osservatore Romano, and he stated that his Congregation had requested the Italian episcopal conference to ask the publisher to have a disclaimer printed in the volumes that "clearly indicated from the very first page that the 'visions' and 'dictations' referred to in it are simply the literary forms used by the author to narrate in her own way the life of Jesus. They cannot be considered supernatural in origin."^[21]

By then, the Italian Bishops Conference had already carried out the Congregation's request: in letter 324/92 of 6 January 1992, it recalled the notes about the matter that had appeared onL'Osservatore Romano of 6 January 1960 and 15 June 1966 and it requested that "in any future reprint of the volumes, each should, right from its first page, clearly state that the 'visions' and 'dictations' referred to in it cannot be held to be of supernatural origin but must be considered simply as literary forms used by the author to narrate in her own way the life of Jesus".^[23]

 

 

[KnightofChrist]

Jesus gave a standard by which to judge.......by the fruits...not pears. Spiritual fruits in this case would be conversions, conversions, conversions or strengthening of the Faith. Just in my family there have been a few of them attributed to Valtorta. There is few people who became priests because of her writings. I watched few people giving their testimonies and conversion experiences on YouTube. I never heard a testimony of someone leaving the Faith because of Valtorta. That's ridiculous. Even if you read one page of Valtorta there is something divine, good and right about them; hence even high Church officials and scholars give positive opinions. Positive opinion means also no DOGMATIC or MORAL errors.  Read one page of Valtorta and listen to your Church sermons in N. America and Europe and watch how Catholics dress, behave and live their Faith in these region particularly. Talk about collective possession of conscience; Paganism, they have been converted back to paganism. Remember even saints talk about this False Church and false church does not come to existence if it does not have false Catholics, false Christians, Modernists I guess.

 

The BIG RED FLAG for me is that the author claims the book to be of supernatural origin, the author claims that she was divinely inspired by Christ and the Mother of God to write the book.

 

If what I read of the book is correct, she attempts to fill in the gaps of were the Gospels left off in the life of Christ, making it a like Gospel. Whenever I see anyone saying they have a message from Heaven, or ones that try to add more to the Gospel without clean Church approval, the words of Paul from Galatians 1:6-10* echo in my head. Also, the Church on earth has the keys, she chooses whether or not something is or is not of Heaven. I see thus far no explicate approval of the Poem as being from Heaven, or divinely inspired. Do you have any such proof?

 

 

 

No Other Gospel

 

6 I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel. 7 Which is not another, only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. 9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

 

[Julian]

Let he who is without sin draw his flamethrower first. Feeling lucky?

 

We're just reporting the facts. If you'd like to accuse a man who became Pope of something, go ahead and do it.
 

 

 

Luck? Threat? No I don't use these. I just use virutes: In this case humilty. Anger, luck, pride is for the other kind. 

I also reported and posted the facts so people can read truth and they can read people who cut her sentences in half to say she said something she in fact did not say.

These people have some serious issues. I mean why would someone state she said "this" while in fact she did not. This kind of people we call liars. For they want us to consent to temptation that they have consented to. Demon can move a judgment to conclusion which has not been truthfully or logically analyzed. This lack of truth presenting is called lying. It is also a sin against justice.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Julian

[Basilisa Marie]

 

 

I mean who cares at what happend 50 yrs. ago or so. 8 Bishops have approved it since, so it is good to read.

 

Nope. 

 

Which 8 bishops? Where? Is one your bishop? Because that's the only way I can imagine their judgment can be relevant, when the pope said nope. 

Edited January 21, 2014 by Basilisa Marie

[Julian]

Nope. 

 

Which 8 bishops? Where? Is one your bishop? Because that's the only way I can imagine their judgment can be relevant, when the pope said nope. 

 

Pope did not say nope. This is also lying. SIN.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Julian

[KnightofChrist]

Pope did not say no. This is also lying. SIN.

 

If you're going to continue with this nonsense, and ignore my post, I'm going to go back to spamming this thread with nonsense quotes from Alice in Wonderland, or Through the Looking Glass, or any other random nonsense that comes to mind.

Edited January 21, 2014 by KnightofChrist

[NotreDame]

First, you are quoting sites dedicated to Maria Valorta in support of Maria Valorta.  See a problem there?

 

Second, all 3rd party sites show clearly that the Holy See explicitly says that Valorta's writings "cannot be considered supernatural in origin."

 

Third, it's private revelation, we are all free to ignore it and not believe in it, however, we should only believe in it if it has Church approval, which this does not.  So the burden of proof is on you, not us, to show Church approval for these just for you to believe in it.  Even with Church approval, we are free to ignore it.

 

Fourth, if people can't disagree with you without being sinners, then you are engaging in the worst kind of ad hominem.

 

Fifth,  if you can't engage in a real discussion (ie. one that doesn't involve calling those you disagree with "sinners), then don't get made when we make the best of it by making reptile-alien jokes.  :brutebeast:

 

Edited January 21, 2014 by NotreDame

[Basilisa Marie]

Pope did not say nope. This is also lying. SIN.

 

Oh calm down. Pope John XXIII said nope. It's not lying, it's a corporeal work of mercy. :P

 

Answer the question - which 8 bishops? Is one yours? How or why are these 8 more important than a pope and the Italian Conference of Bishops? 

[Julian]

But I like pears. 

 

Haha, funny. I meant pearls of course. English second language, plus I writte too fast. You know what I mean.

[Julian]

Oh calm down. Pope John XXIII said nope. It's not lying, it's a corporeal work of mercy. :P

 

Answer the question - which 8 bishops? Is one yours? How or why are these 8 more important than a pope and the Italian Conference of Bishops? 

 

Show me the quote. If you say something, support it. Since I am not aware of this.

 

[Julian]

Oh calm down. Pope John XXIII said nope. It's not lying, it's a corporeal work of mercy. :P

 

Answer the question - which 8 bishops? Is one yours? How or why are these 8 more important than a pope and the Italian Conference of Bishops? 

 

Remember almost all the bishops betrayed the Church during the English reformation. Few stayed loyal.

[Julian]

If you're going to continue with this nonsense, and ignore my post, I'm going to go back to spamming this thread with nonsense quotes from Alice in Wonderland, or Through the Looking Glass, or any other random nonsense that comes to mind.

 

6 I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel. 7 Which is not another, only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. 9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

 

There is nothing addedd to the Gospels. No new teaching. That was simple.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Julian