Norseman82 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Witamy jeszcze raz (Welcome back). I would also advise to find out what makes them think the way they do - meaning that if she is pro-life but makes exceptions in the case of rape and incest, then maybe she hasn't thought it through and nees to have it pointed out that the circumstances of conception do not make the unborn baby any less human or feel any less pain when aborted. That may be enough to educate her. Edited January 21, 2014 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 is this a debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polskieserce Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Witamy jeszcze raz (Welcome back). I would also advise to find out what makes them think the way they do - meaning that if she is pro-life but makes exceptions in the case of rape and incest, then maybe she hasn't thought it through and nees to have it pointed out that the circumstances of conception do not make the unborn baby any less human or feel any less pain when aborted. That may be enough to educate her. Dziękuję, może tym razem nie będzie wojna o dziewictwo :hehe2: I agree that the circumstances of a person's birth do no determine if they are human. But I have seen a number of people who think this way. In their eyes, if the child was conceived normally, it's a baby. If it was conceived by rape, it's a fetus and an abomination. I have said this to girls before, it didn't go anywhere because they just weren't serious about God's definition of life. I have noticed that a lot of CINOs are really lukewarm secular hedonists and that they have no intention of changing that. I will do my thing anyway, and if I change some minds along the way, then the world will be a better place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 is this a debate? No. :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polskieserce Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 is this a debate? No. :| You never know when those flame wars break out. I posted it here just to be on the safe side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 You get what you fish for. If you go to a bar, than it's likely you will find a woman who has all sorts of odd moral beliefs. For me, I attended Catholic groups and went online to find my (future) spouse. All of the things (do you believe in xyz) were out there. For a couple of bad dates I had previous to my fiancee, it was clear that they were not truthful, however, I knew very soon that I could trust my fiancee. I would recommend that for men that if your "woman picker" is broken you take some serious counseling to get to the bottom of why. While the first date doesn't need to be an interview, it's usually easy to see by how a person reacts to things, what they say, what their real beliefs are. If your having a real problem with this in the dating world I would suggest 1) stop looking where you are looking and 2) at the same time perhaps get some advice of a professional, priest or religious on picking up cues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Didn't have to bring it up. We met on Ave Maria Singles, and you have to answer that question on your profile. Ditto. That venue has the advantage of letting you know beforehand where the person stands on a number of key moral and religious issues. (Although I've seen reported that some people apparently were dishonest in filling out their profile, saying they agreed with the Church because they figured it was the "pc" thing on that site, when in fact they did not - though I personally hadn't run across that problem with the girls I met.) I also had attended an orthodox Catholic college where everyone was pro-life, so abortion was never an issue on that scene, either, Realize most people aren't in such circumstances, though. As to the OP, I know that a woman being pro-abortion/"pro-choice" would have been a definite deal-breaker with regards to serious dating and marriage. I don't regard the issue of abortion and the right to life as just another political issue, but as a fundamental value. Thinking that killing an unborn child is an acceptable choice is completely contrary to my most basic moral beliefs - as well as those taught by the Church. I was pretty straightforward regarding my religious and political views when dating. (Not that I'd spend the entire date talking politics or anything.) May not have made me the smoothest lady's man on the block, and a few did reject me because of my social-political views. But if deeply held religious or moral beliefs are going to be a deal-breaker for either party, it's better that it be dealt with early in dating, rather than shortly before the wedding - or after you're already married. It's also foolish and naive to presume that your beloved will necessarily convert to your way of thinking after you're hitched. Things could get extremely ugly if you found yourselves with a pregnancy in very difficult circumstances (unexpected severe financial problems, baby with severe defects, serious health issues, etc.) and your spouse believed abortion was an acceptable option. Or even if neither of you would ever consider personally getting an abortion, there's the issue of raising your children. It's harder to instill good Catholic pro-life values in your kids if Daddy says abortion is murder and always very wrong, while Mommy says its a perfectly legitimate choice and a woman's right (or vice-versa). The Church generally frowns upon mixed marriages for the issue of raising children in the Faith, and marrying a pro-abortion person can have similar, even more serious issues. A "pro-choice" stance on abortion is clearly incompatible with Catholic belief. There are good Catholic guys and gals out there. You just might happen to look a little deeper to find them than hanging out at your local bar or club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 most people, even politically pro-choice people excepting the extreme wacko radicals, still don't prefer people to choose abortions as long as they feel it can be avoided. Still, there's over a million abortions a year in America alone, and statistically over one in four American women has at least one abortion by the end of their fertile years. So, while most people don't see abortion as being a desirable thing in itself, the reality of abortion is not confined to the wacko fringe. There are many real circumstances in which life is not the easy choice. So while not every "pro-choicer" will be want to have an abortion, I think it's best to be on the safe side and date those who share your moral views. Also, contraception will be a real issue you have to decide in marriage. If you take the Church's teachings on contraception seriously, and your spouse does not, or disagrees with them, there will be real problems. I think it goes without saying that anyone okay with abortion will also be okay with contraception, and probably expect to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Be careful in using this term loosely. I'd say anybody okay with abortion would fall under that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Also, contraception will be a real issue you have to decide in marriage. If you take the Church's teachings on contraception seriously, and your spouse does not, or disagrees with them, there will be real problems. I think it goes without saying that anyone okay with abortion will also be okay with contraception, and probably expect to use it. True story: one lady I met at a National Catholic Singles Conference mentioned she was a pharmacist at a major chain. Now, in Illinois (and I'm sure other states) there is a requirement that pharmacists distribute such abortifacients as the morning after pill. When I asked her about that, I think her justification was along the lines of "it's just part of my job" (it was a long time ago, so I only remember the generalities and not the minute details). I decided not to pursue her since I knew at some point I would tell her that if we were to get married, she would have to find another job or line of work since I regarded her paycheck as "blood money". Two other issues that have also become major moral issues these days: 1) The rising use of IVF to achieve pregnancy. 2) Same-sex marriage. Will you and your spouse stand together when you need to refuse to attend a same-sex ceremony for a close relative or acquaintance, even if iy causes one of those rifts wiithin relationships that Jesus predicted (see Matthew 10:34-36). (Please note: this also applies to invalid heterosexual marriages as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Catholic Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 True story: one lady I met at a National Catholic Singles Conference mentioned she was a pharmacist at a major chain. Now, in Illinois (and I'm sure other states) there is a requirement that pharmacists distribute such abortifacients as the morning after pill. When I asked her about that, I think her justification was along the lines of "it's just part of my job" (it was a long time ago, so I only remember the generalities and not the minute details). I decided not to pursue her since I knew at some point I would tell her that if we were to get married, she would have to find another job or line of work since I regarded her paycheck as "blood money". Two other issues that have also become major moral issues these days: 1) The rising use of IVF to achieve pregnancy. 2) Same-sex marriage. Will you and your spouse stand together when you need to refuse to attend a same-sex ceremony for a close relative or acquaintance, even if iy causes one of those rifts wiithin relationships that Jesus predicted (see Matthew 10:34-36). (Please note: this also applies to invalid heterosexual marriages as well). I let my pharmacist know he's a murderer next time I see him lol Always find it ironic that the people with the least amount of experience with personal relationships tend to be the same ones giving out the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Always find it ironic that the people with the least amount of experience with personal relationships tend to be the same ones giving out the advice. Why do you keep weighing in on moral issues then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Catholic Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Why do you keep weighing in on moral issues then? Morality is relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Morality is relative. Your screen name is ironic then. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Morality is relative. I gathered you felt that way from reading your posts. What I don't understand is why you seem so shocked at Catholics when they express catholic morality on a Catholic forum. I get how you could disagree - and maybe I'm reading something into your posts that isn't there - but you seem to have a shocked, almost derisive reaction to those type of posts. Given that it's a catholic board with lots of catholics, I'm surprised that this would shock anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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