Stop Crying Rape

[God the Father]

Theft isn't a perfect analogy, because a human body isn't the same thing as a wallet or another piece of property - we're talking about a violation of an actual person that could have far-reaching and painful consequences for their future life. The existence of the double standard is exemplified pretty well nor only by the poor reporting and conviction rate, but by the sheer frequency with which this discussion about 'responsible' female behaviour occurs (it outstrips discussions on theft by miles)

 

The double standard is also obvious in the way people talk about rape. Take FuturePriest's example. He wants to talk about hypotheticals where the guy and the girl are both drunk - in a thread that attributes full blame to the woman for not 'taking responsibility' for her drinking. We will never see a thread on Phatmass about men needing to 'take responsibility' for their drinking in case they force themselves on someone unwilling. That's the difference.

 

 

I made no mention of a double standard between men and women and the attribution of responsibility for rape. The reason this discussion so frequently occurs about "responsible" female behavior and so little about "responsible" theft-victim behavior is because the former is a liberal feminist standard, and the latter is simply assumed as precautions that logical people take to avoid being victims of theft. When rape victims are blamed, an army of social justice crusaders spring to their defense. When theft victims are blamed, the articles are circulated by the media so viewers feel "prepared" and don't let the same thing happen to them. So the double standard you identified earlier--

 

 

Where are the articles saying "Stop crying theft!" about how people need to take responsibility for their 'bad choices' in leaving their house unlocked for half an hour while they had a nap?

 

 

--is still non-existent, which I attempted to evidence by linking to an article that ascribes blame to theft victims for not hiding Christmas presents out of sight from the street. But you don't see Jezebel.com sicing their audience on the St. Louis affiliate of NBC for running this article. This is the only point I made.
 

[BG45]

BG and I were having a private discussion about silly sally walks recently. 

 

As well as how the military punishes women for being raped by taking it out on the other women in their barracks. x.x  

[CatherineM]

If both parties are too drunk to legally consent to sex, then why does that make the male the rapist? If a female teacher can be convicted of rape because her underage student could not legally consent to sex, then why not a female college student whose partner was too drunk to consent?

[PhuturePriest]

As well as how the military punishes women for being raped by taking it out on the other women in their barracks. x.x  

 

What do you mean? I've never heard of this before.

[Kateri89]

Just curious, since this seems to be turning into a debate, shouldn't it be moved to the debate table?

[BG45]

What do you mean? I've never heard of this before.

Well, to provide some context first, in 2012 there were an estimated 26,000 sexual assaults in the military, with less than 3% being punished.  Those aren't my numbers, those are the Department of Defense's.

 

However, female soldiers have told anecdotal stories about how sometimes, when a woman is raped who belongs to your barracks, you'll be forced to pull extra "guard duty" in your Barracks.  There are a few ways to look at it.  The nicest way is "you're making sure no one can hurt your friend after her traumatic experience".  Another is "We can't trust any men on guard duty for you, due to the nature of this crime".  And the third is "You are all being collectively punished, because one of you actually dared to report a rape."  

 

Edit:  I typoed up by 10,000, fixed it.

[Basilisa Marie]

I want to add - should you be responsible when going out? Of course! When I was an RA in college I always spent part of my first meeting with my (all female, freshmen) residents explaining "common sense" safety practices, like the buddy system, not letting your friend go home with a guy who gives off a weird vibe, never leaving your drink unattended, what to do if you find yourself in a bad situation, what to do if your friend has had too much to drink, consent, all of that.  It's good sense to practice safe practices like these.  

 

But that doesn't have anything to do with who is "responsible" in a rape. They're two separate issues, and the author of the article seems to think they're connected much more than they are. 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

The o.p. was much better said than my previous banned thread, some M(sin) content in a G class of manner, i hope i have the smarts to do as such one day. Well said. God bless you.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[OnlySunshine]

This has become an epidemic on my campus.  The story usually goes that a girl is walking by herself (mostly at night) and is raped/sexually assaulted.  The terrible thing is that the attacker is always said to be an "anonymous black male" and the stories wind up to be false.  The criminology department is doing research on it to find out the ripple effect this has on the campus.  There have been two occasions while I've been attending (2 semesters).  If, God-forbid, it actually happens, no one is going to believe the victim. 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

 I really feel for the whole lot of people that are being disregarded as actual rape victims socially who have actually been raped, unsure the actual police would disregard any rape case as not worthy of investigation and if they do I'm sad for that too if it's that bad. But i fully understand the boy who cried wolf stuff, if there are many cases where women are saying they have been raped when it was a drunken rampage denying it takes two to tango type stuff and it is causing a paranoid everyone is a lier mentality that is very sad and of the devil. Flout envy, replace it with trust, that's what it says on my uncles funeral card, it is from some old catholic saying.

 

Jesus is LORD.

[beatitude]

I have just taken a look at the site that article came from. It's a sorority site that seems to specialise in teaching women how we can hate ourselves just a little bit more. Other jewels of advice apart from "stop crying rape" include an article on what to do when "you've wrangled yourself a somewhat-steady man":

 

Waxing and sugaring is expensive, but a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do when her nether region is going to be receiving a steady stream of *ahem* attention. You can't pull the ol' "Oops! I didn't have time to shave!" when your guy knows you've been sitting around watching Scandal all day, so you might as well sack up, and smooth down.

 

 

I wonder which is worse in this hierarchy of female crimes - not 'taking responsibility' for your drinking and ending up getting raped because of it, or not 'doing what a girl's gotta do' with her body hair. I should write to the authors for clarification. How are we females supposed to hate ourselves effectively and blame ourselves properly if they won't let us know what's mortal and what's venial?

 

On a serious note, it frightens me that women read this and actually treat it as serious sensible advice. It's not. That whole site is basically about how you need to please men and how if you fail it's your fault. When read in context with the rest of the site, such as how to know "what he REALLY expects when he buys you a drink" (so you won't disappoint him by being unreasonable and refusing sex after a beer, presumably), "crying rape" is wrong to them because it's a failure to be a pleasing woman - men don't like girls who create unpleasant business like that.

 

It is upsetting that there are women out there who are quite happy to pour their time and energy into urging other women to be unhappy and unsafe - not to be speak of being deeply uncomfortable as their body hair gets ripped out.

Edited January 17, 2014 by beatitude

[Semper Catholic]

If you're actively debating that "crying rape is a problem" you have major issues and should seek help.

Guess what? Every single person posts on this board knows someone who has been raped. Most women don't report it because of articles like this.

[Semper Catholic]

Maybe the moral of this story is everyone needs to stop consuming so much alcohol. There's a reason liquor has traditionally been called "spirits" and trust me they're not the good kind.

The moral of this story is we need to teach our sons not to take advantage of incapacitated women

[PhuturePriest]

I have just taken a look at the site that article came from. It's a sorority site that seems to specialise in teaching women how we can hate ourselves just a little bit more. Other jewels of advice apart from "stop crying rape" include an article on what to do when "you've wrangled yourself a somewhat-steady man":

 

 

I wonder which is worse in this hierarchy of female crimes - not 'taking responsibility' for your drinking and ending up getting raped because of it, or not 'doing what a girl's gotta do' with her body hair. I should write to the authors for clarification. How are we females supposed to hate ourselves effectively and blame ourselves properly if they won't let us know what's mortal and what's venial?

 

On a serious note, it frightens me that women read this and actually treat it as serious sensible advice. It's not. That whole site is basically about how you need to please men and how if you fail it's your fault. When read in context with the rest of the site, such as how to know "what he REALLY expects when he buys you a drink" (so you won't disappoint him by being unreasonable and refusing sex after a beer, presumably), "crying rape" is wrong to them because it's a failure to be a pleasing woman - men don't like girls who create unpleasant business like that.

 

It is upsetting that there are women out there who are quite happy to pour their time and energy into urging other women to be unhappy and unsafe - not to be speak of being deeply uncomfortable as their body hair gets ripped out.

 

I don't think waxes are inherently good or bad. It's all a matter of personal taste, really, and I would be willing to wax any part of my body if I was asked to by my wife (Getting my legs waxed is already something I've been debating about anyway). Some people aren't okay with them, particularly in the "nether regions", and that's fine. However, I don't think promoting the idea that women *need* to get waxed is a very good one, and it doesn't really settle well with me. I don't think it's a good thing to shame people that prefer getting waxed, either, though.

[Maggyie]

"stop crying rape" implies that there are tons of girls crying rape who need to stop... there's no evidence that such a phenomenon exists.

 

I do think it's worth educating girls that they, too, should stay alert and constantly evaluate their partner's ability to consent.  "I was so drunk I'm not sure if my partner wanted to stop, or not" is not an excuse for them either. I pointed this out on the other thread but it's not rare for men to have forced sexual encounters. Of course it's difficult to be aware and on top of things if you're wasted, yourself.

 

The other thing is that these discussions are always so "hetero-normative" (never thought I would ever use that word on phatmass). Rape occurs between gay couples of both genders, too.