Justified Suicide?

[blazeingstar]

Yes that's what I was getting at, you can render it in such a way that we never act freely and therefore no sin can be mortal. Humans don't exist in a vacuum, there are numerous subconscious influences and factors that affect our judgment and will. Ultimately though we make a choice that can truly be said to be our own, and in this respect we are responsible. It's a very complicated matter though, and you mention the example of choosing between falling to one's death versus being burned alive in a burning building, to what degree is this choice free given the circumstances. Perhaps a person touched by the flames would instinctively, without exercising their will, run away from the fire and thereby fall to their deaths, but what if there is actual choice involved, to the extent that a person has time to choose which way they prefer to die. It's a horrifying thought, one wonders how God would judge the person who chooses to plummet instead of face the flames, but given the situation I can't imagine a loving God not showing mercy.

 

Well, I still think that innate human instinct would override killing oneself.  I remember watching 60 minutes about suicide survivors and how that many times their will to live kicked in big time moments before they thought they were going to die, but after they pulled the trigger, jumped off the bridge, laid in front of the train.

 

Running away from presant physical danger, is indeed, a choice of will.  Lets say that X corrupt government came in and said that each person must loose one thing, foot, hand, nose and ears or be killed.  They put people in lines.  Some chose to be killed, some killed themselves after loosing a limb.

 

Despair is an illness that is on the same level of a blood infection, its insidious.  However, just like a blood infection that is not treated its still a sin, where culpability may be negated.  If someone in America gets their finger cut and willfully ignores the growing infection because they believe that they are too good to get one, that is willful, sinful ignorance.  Thats why the parents of the diabetic girl who died are in jail...they willfully ignored her physical needs and prayed even though they knew she had diabetes and were told the risks.  Same with the little girl with the pacemaker that needed a new battery.  They had superior knowledge but ignored it for selfish reasons.  We condemn this behavior in our society.

 

 

[CatherineM]

If they killed themselves rather than be raped, who told the story? They couldn't because they were dead. Maybe the rapists? The audience? Most rapists do their work in secret or in gangs.

[NotreDame]

If they killed themselves rather than be raped, who told the story? They couldn't because they were dead. Maybe the rapists? The audience? Most rapists do their work in secret or in gangs.

 

I wondered about this.  As sick as it sounds, I've read about lots of gang rapes by soldiers even today in Africa.  It seems to be pretty shameless out in the open kind of stuff, but I'd imagine they'd at least pull someone out of plain line of sight. 

 

Maybe nuns see them coming, expect the inevitable and then do the deed before the soldiers actually get there?  (though that doesn't sound very Western.)   Maybe the nuns put up a fight at the monastery and slice their throats when the fight is finally hopeless, but would christian soldiers really be around at that point to see it.  A nun doesn't fight if there are still men, and you don't rape a nun when there's still a group of guys with swords trying to kill you, do you?  You take care of the other guys, then go about raping. 

 

There could have been others made prisoners, people being made slaves, or just commoners that hadn't been bothered with yet that eventually snuck out or were rounded up.  These folks could have escaped over time.   There is also ransoming of prisoners that is common with Islam (it's in the Koran.)  A few may have witnessed the suicides.

 

I'm sort of interested, but skeptical about the nun suicide thing, but the raping part - that's not just believable, that's standard practice.   I've read about the seige of spain by the moors and the practices I read of there were even more gruesome. 

[BarbTherese]

I don't think suicide is ever justified; however, I do think that God is Merciful and Understanding, Compassionate and far more so than the very best of human beings.  And that psychological place where suicide is considered even is a very dark and terrible place where all means of escape seem firmly and forever closed.  Those that have never considered suicide have probably never been there.  I recall too the Catholic Catechism re mortal sin :

 

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#1857  #1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.