Sin And Consecrated Life

[Lilllabettt]

St. Thomas More considered becoming a priest. But he decided that it would be better to be a holy lay man than a licentious priest - and so he got married.

 

I am struggling with a similar but separate issue. It seems to me that someone who is consecrated to God's service has an even greater responsibility to love God and avoid sin than even a layman. Sin offends God but it offends Him even more when it is committed by someone who has vowed themselves to Him.

 

So, if a person, knowing human nature, and knowing themselves, realizes that they are and will remain a sinner regardless of state of life -- wouldn't it be "better" to remain a lay person and avoid the extra awfulness of being a sinner in consecrated life?  If the goal is to do what will allow you to draw closer to God?

[krissylou]

I hope Sister Marie and/or other religious respond here.

 

For me, I think I disagree with your premise.  We renounce sin in Baptism.  We vow ourselves to God through the sacraments of initiation.  Religious life is one particular way of living that out.  But to see the lay vocation as "Christian lite" is I think an insufficient understanding of baptism.

 

And really.  If people who are and will remain sinners should not enter religious life, that would reduce the population of consecrated religious to zero.

[brandelynmarie]

Lilllabettt, are you referring specifically to more serious &/or mortal sins rather than venial ones?

Or even ones that would be habitual & not conducive to RL?

Just looking for clarification. :)

Edited January 8, 2014 by brandelynmarie

[Lilllabettt]

I'm not referring to any particular sin or even mortal sin as a category. Just sin. 

Its not that I see the lay vocation as Christian-lite. It's just uh - I don't know. Its just with all the helps and special graces God bestows in religious life you know ... screwing up in the face of that ... is just feels more "guilty" to me.

I know I am backwards somehow here, just looking to be untangled.

 

This is a problem for me with the Rule in religious life too. I know, on an intellectual level, that no Rule binds on pain of sin. Because no one would enter religious life if it meant piling up ways to sin. But then somehow I have these stories in my head about "bad religious" being tortured in Hell for being lazy about how they say the Office or something ...  where I got them I don't know. Indiscriminate reading in my misspent youth perhaps.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Lilllabettt

[beatitude]

I'm currently in a convent now on retreat, and this evening they showed us a film based on the life of Dorothy Day. Towards the end, Day is shown telling the volunteers at her house of hospitality for the homeless: "God doesn't ask us to be perfect. He only asks us to be faithful."

 

When Jesus came to earth he spent time with those who struggled and encouraged them. I don't think his way of proceeding has changed very much. He isn't looking to punish you for making mistakes if you go into the religious life. You will have a mission to fulfill there (just as you would have as a laywoman) and he would encourage you in it. More than encourage. I don't think it's supposed to be an arduous slog all the time with the threat of falling into sin hanging over your head. I think he intends you to find joy in what you're made for.

 

St Therese used to fall asleep in adoration. She said that sometimes the surgeon needs to put the patient to sleep before beginning work. That was her possibly showing a greater degree of faithfulness than someone who was able to remain kneeling and thinking pious thoughts the whole time. Don't let your weaknesses allow you to lose sight of God's strength and goodness, which will be more than enough no matter what he's asking you to do. Instead, think about what you really love, because that is probably the biggest signpost anyone ever gets in vocational discernment.

Edited January 8, 2014 by beatitude

[cmaD2006]

But then somehow I have these stories in my head about "bad religious" being tortured in Hell for being lazy about how they say the Office or something ...  where I got them I don't know. Indiscriminate reading in my misspent youth perhaps.

 

Heh.  I've heard these crazy stories as well.  Who is to say that they are true?  The only one who knows for sure is the Lord.

 

In any state in life, be it marriage, celibate singlehood, hermit, consecrated virginity, religious life (as a brother/sister/monk/nun), or in a clerical state (i.e priest/deacon/bishop/pope) the person will be accountable for what he/she has been given and has agreed to.

 

I would think that a person who is married would be accountable for how that marriage was lived out.  In the same way that a priest who is a pastor will be accountable for how well they pastored the sheep given to them.  A religious would be accountable for how they lived religious life.

 

A religious has vows that they need to keep -- for example, a religious that somehow hoards money in some crazy fashion and hides that from their superiors is going to be held accountable (not only for probably lying, but for breaking a vow that they promised to keep).

 

Now ... is a religious going to go to hell for not properly praying the office every day?  Probably not (you'd have to be a saint to be able to do that).  But -- could a religious who has an habitual practice of not properly praying the office risk salvation?  Maybe (because religious are usually required to pray the office).  More likely -- it's venial, and maybe they'll end up in purgatory because of the numerous times they said it just because they had to vs. praying it.

 

But again -- I'm not God.  If I was I'd probably not only condemn myself but everyone else around me.  So thankfully I'm not and I do believe in a very merciful God who knows a person's heart better than anyone else can perceive it (including the owner of said heart).

[miserere55]

This is probably one of the reasons why religious are obligated to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation more than lay people.  Also, in several communities and in the monasteries there is set times for examination of conscience - more than once each day. 

 

But on the other hand, I remember when reading St. Faustina's Diary, (paraphrase) she asked Jesus why He seemed so sad.  He responded that very few people actually love Him.  Faustina said, referring to her community of over 600 sisters, "Lord, all these women here love You."  Jesus said, "Is that what you think?  There are only 9 women here who love Me."

 

In religious life there will be many daily reminders to the members on how they are supposed to live.  And like CMAD2003 said: God is Merciful.

[Sister Marie]

Hi Lilllabettt,

 

I want to change the perspective a little bit in looking at this issue of sin and religious life to the purpose of religious life.  The purpose of religious life (and really of every vocation) is first for the salvation of the soul of the individual and second for the salvation of as many other souls as is possible.  So, where does sin fit in here?  If the purpose of religious life is to, very simply put, get to heaven and bring as many people with you as possible, how do we, as sinful human beings, do that?  It isn't by simply "not sinning" that we get to heaven.  Leading a life with the goal of "not sinning" is no life at all.  Please do not think that I am promoting sin - absolutely not.  What I am promoting is that the way we get to Heaven is through love.  Love can take so many forms depending on the one doing the loving and looks different for each person but some words I would use that would describe what love feels like to me would be: commitment, passion, recklessness, selflessness, joy, generosity, sacrifice, goodness...  These are the goals and in working towards these we move away from sin.  The most effective way to move away from sin is to fall in love and live in love.  If one is called to religious life by that love then one will have the graces to move closer to love.  If one is called to marriage by that love then one will have the graces to move closer to love.  If one is called to be single by that love then one will have the graces to move closer to that love.  

 

We are all called to the same end - to be saints - regardless of our state in life.  Each state of life as well as each person in it brings some areas of strength, some of temptation, some of failure, some of weakness, some of challenge to the one living the life.  It's how we respond to our own sinfulness in relation to Love that determines a great deal of what happens next.

 

I have been pondering the words of Pope Francis to the Union of Superiors General where he said “You should be real witnesses of a world of doing and acting differently. But in life it is difficult for everything to be clear, precise, outlined neatly. Life is complicated; it consists of grace and sin. He who does not sin is not human. We all make mistakes and we need to recognise our weakness. A religious who recognises himself as weak and a sinner does not negate the witness that he is called to give, rather he reinforces it, and this is good for everyone. What I expect of you therefore is to give witness. I want this special witness from religious.”  

 

I don't think there is much more to say!  

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

We are all sinners and will be until we die. It's the state of our fallen nature, redeemed yes,  but our intelligence is darkened and our wills weakened by original sin.

Monastic life is because we ARE sinners! At each stage (as Dominicans) we prostrate and ask for "God's mercy and yours". Our consecrated life is possible ONLY because of God's grace.

 

The first men who went into the desert weren't all saints. In fact, some entered monastic life because they were criminals hiding out from the law!

 

The vows are not stumbling blocks but the MEANS to become holy. St. Thomas says that a virtuous action is more praiseworthy and more meritorious if the will is strengthened by a vow.

From the Summa, question 186, a 10:
On the other hand, if a religious, not out of contempt, but out of weakness or ignorance, commit a sin that is not against the vow of his profession, without giving scandal (for instance if he commit it in secret) he sins less grievously in the same kind of sin than a secular, because his sin if slight is absorbed as it were by his many good works, and if it be mortal, he more easily recovers from it. First, because he has a right intention towards God, and though it be intercepted for the moment, it is easily restored to its former object. Hence Origen commenting on Ps. 36:24, "When he shall fall he shall not be bruised," says (Hom. iv in Ps. 36): "The wicked man, if he sin, repents not, and fails to make amends for his sin. But the just man knows how to make amends and recover himself; even as he who had said: 'I know not the man,' shortly afterwards when the Lord had looked on him, knew to shed most bitter tears, and he who from the roof had seen a woman and desired her knew to say: 'I have sinned and done evil before Thee.'" Secondly, he is assisted by his fellow-religious to rise again, according to Eccles. 4:10, "If one fall he shall be supported by the other: woe to him that is alone, for when he falleth he hath none to lift him up."

 

If we think the focus of the vows is on ourselves than on God than we are going to think that it's all about our effort. The vows are an act of WORSHIP toward God. To be faithful to this holocaust, as a sacrifice of praise God works in us by His grace. We can't do it ourselves. The devil doesn't want us giving praise and worship to God so he's going to try to discourage us from making vows by telling us that we are going to sin anyway so why bother.

 

 

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

This is probably one of the reasons why religious are obligated to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation more than lay people.  Also, in several communities and in the monasteries there is set times for examination of conscience - more than once each day. 

 

But on the other hand, I remember when reading St. Faustina's Diary, (paraphrase) she asked Jesus why He seemed so sad.  He responded that very few people actually love Him.  Faustina said, referring to her community of over 600 sisters, "Lord, all these women here love You."  Jesus said, "Is that what you think?  There are only 9 women here who love Me."

 

In religious life there will be many daily reminders to the members on how they are supposed to live.  And like CMAD2003 said: God is Merciful.

 

But this is a private revelation.  It's much better to take to heart the words of the Gospel.
 

[domenica_therese]

 

Its not that I see the lay vocation as Christian-lite. It's just uh - I don't know. Its just with all the helps and special graces God bestows in religious life you know ... screwing up in the face of that ... is just feels more "guilty" to me.

I know I am backwards somehow here, just looking to be untangled.

 

 

I might be totally erroneously putting words in the mouths of the Church Fathers, but I'm pretty sure Augustine (or somebody) avoided Baptism for a long time because they didn't want to be baptized and then fall -- thereby sullying the Baptism. I know there was also the "Lord, make me holy, but not yet," but I'm pretty sure this factored in there too. Or maybe I'm confusing it with someone else I read in Western Theological Traditions.

Regardless, the problem with this is that it neglects the fact of what the effect of all that grace on us actually is. It's not that we receive it and then it sits on our mantlepiece waiting for us to get it dusty or drop it. It's not a porcelain doll, it's a heavy-duty back-hoe God gives us to help us deal with the muck. So all you need to do is allow that grace to work. God gives extra grace in religious life just to even the scales since they're very directly at war with the devil because of their state in life; I can't imagine that a married person living a very faithful, fruitful, countercultural witness of their vocation in the world would be any less attacked or receive any less grace. "Screwing up" in the face of God's grace is only more culpable if, through our pride, we leave the back-hoe sitting there unused and continue with our thimble. If, using the back-hoe (with good intent, though perhaps, due to long-engrained habit, not very competently) we still fall, we have not dishonored the grace. We merely rise again and humbly ask for a) more grace, or b) the grace of better being more receptive to the grace next time.

 

I want to change the perspective a little bit in looking at this issue of sin and religious life to the purpose of religious life.  The purpose of religious life (and really of every vocation) is first for the salvation of the soul of the individual and second for the salvation of as many other souls as is possible.  So, where does sin fit in here?  If the purpose of religious life is to, very simply put, get to heaven and bring as many people with you as possible, how do we, as sinful human beings, do that?  [. . .]  the way we get to Heaven is through love.  

 

Beautiful post, Sister Marie, and I just wanted to briefly focus on this part. If we discern our vocation, we have found the best path for us, as an individual beloved by God, to reach salvation. So:

 

St. Thomas More considered becoming a priest. But he decided that it would be better to be a holy lay man than a licentious priest - and so he got married.

 

So, if a person, knowing human nature, and knowing themselves, realizes that they are and will remain a sinner regardless of state of life -- wouldn't it be "better" to remain a lay person and avoid the extra awfulness of being a sinner in consecrated life?  If the goal is to do what will allow you to draw closer to God?

 

I think that here, in the Thomas More example, the thing is that being a priest was not the way which God had eternally in mind for him for him to get to heaven, therefore, the best path to him for heaven was not priesthood, it was marriage. This has nothing to do with More's sinfulness, and everything to do with the fact that his soul was made for marriage, so priesthood would be a rupture of his identity.

 

So, ultimately, it is important not to know your sinfulness, but to know yourself, and to know how God has called you to be holy -- which, as Sister Marie aptly reminded us, breaks down to loving him -- and then follow that path. Concupiscence is unavoidable and all of us have it.

Edited January 9, 2014 by domenica_therese

[Mary+Immaculate<3]

Regardless of vocation, we are called to take up our cross and sin no more. Just because one is consecrated to God doesn't mean God is going to be more offended than a married person. Sin is sin is sin, there's no way around that. Everyone is called holiness, so everyone is called to purity and chastity. Chastity within marriage is different than chastity without, nonetheless it is vital for any marriage.

[Luigi]

Li'bett -

 

I think I see where you're coming from - a religious sister told me once (when I was very young) that it's harder for priests and religious to get into heaven because they know better than the average person. It would be like an accountant who doesn't pay his bills or something, I guess - the very person you figure is at expert at that kind of thing doesn't do any better than the average untrained person.

 

But ...

 

Religious and priests are, after all, still just human. And holiness isn't just a matter of knowledge - if we could increase our holiness just by reading and discussing, we wouldn't need to fast or sacrifice or any of that stuff.

 

 

And a monk told me once - I think maybe he lifted this from St. Augustine or somebody like that - "A saint is a sinner who keeps trying." Which implies that even saints fail/sin. Maybe even fairly regularly. There was some other saint - a monk, I think - whose motto was "Today I will begin again." And lastly, I have a friend who encourages people who feel like they didn't do their job correctly, or well enough, or in fact messed up big-time-bad-time, "Fall down seven times, get  up eight." (Which doesn't really make a lot of sense - you can't get up more times than you fall down. But folk wisdom is not always logical. And it still makes a good point.)

 

 

Anyway, no - I don't think it's better not to take vows of some sort just because you know you're going struggle with sin. The vows express the intention to struggle with the sin, not the promise to conquer it.

 

 

[maximillion]

Beautiful, thoughtful and inspiring posts folks, thanks.

 

I particularly like the image of grace being like a backhoe! Fantastic. And extremely encouraging, so thanks for posing the question, Lillabett.

[Lilllabettt]

So, thanks everyone, especially to the Sisters.

 

Over the holiday I spent some time with family who happen to have built their lives into a little Hell.  I mean true, pitiless misery, every waking hour of the day. Their personalities are deformed. They vacuum the life force out of human beings and dispose of them like candy wrappers.  It seems rational and acceptable to them. They scream, literally, that they cant bear it any longer. But they do. It's like a scene from No Exit...

 

I wondered ... how did this happen? And I realized that really I watched it happen little by little growing up. They got out of the habit of being generous and now they are walled-in and encased.

 

I see glimpses of them in myself and I get scared. I could very easily become like that. My family has no evil members. It was gradual backsliding. I don't want that to be my destiny. I don't want to be a Sister if that's my destiny!

I gotta take this to my spiritual director, and I will. I think right now I am just discouraged in striving to become holy.

 

thanks again phriends, pray for me.

 

Edited January 9, 2014 by Lilllabettt