Divine Will And Pride And Predjudice...

[Annie12]

I am pretty sure there will be different takes on this question but, where does the Divine will fit in with a love story as shown in Pride and Prejudice? (I am specifically referencing the movie here but if you would like to reference the book also, please do.) Would it go to far to say that Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth are soul mates; or in other words that they were predestined by God to fall in love? It seems halfway through the movie as though everything is falling apart but in the end they end up together anyway. Could this bee seen as Providence?

 

I tend to believe that soul mates do exist insofar as there is nothing in time which escapes God's eye and therefore his plan for our life. Please forgive me if this topic is redundant (because I know there have been previous threads about soul mates). Pax!

Edited January 5, 2014 by Annie12

[truthfinder]

No, I wouldn't say soul mates.  Lizzy exercises agency in rejecting Mr. Collins as well as both her initial refusal and subsequent acceptance of Mr. Darcy.  This seems most probably coming about by their mutual improvement in their own behaviours - this is what I would consider the workings of Providence - not their actual marriage.  Some have also argued that Lizzy may have been further urged on to accept him by her appreciation of the Darcy estate. I think she could have just as easily rejected Darcy for trying to "buy" her by salvaging Lydia. 

 

Companionnate marriages were gaining acceptance at this this time, but I do not believe that the notion of "soul-mate" could really be read into the book - it's a bit of an anachronism in the movie (perhaps less so with the 1980s David Rintoul version).  Although one may have given thanks to God for putting their spouse into their path, the idea that it was predestined is probably a stretch. Also remember that Lizzy got along really well with Col. Fitzwilliam but he could not give her any further attention because he would need a wealthy wife - something Elizabeth could not give. 

[An Historian]

No, I wouldn't say soul mates.  Lizzy exercises agency in rejecting Mr. Collins as well as both her initial refusal and subsequent acceptance of Mr. Darcy.  This seems most probably coming about by their mutual improvement in their own behaviours - this is what I would consider the workings of Providence - not their actual marriage.  Some have also argued that Lizzy may have been further urged on to accept him by her appreciation of the Darcy estate. I think she could have just as easily rejected Darcy for trying to "buy" her by salvaging Lydia. 

 

Companionnate marriages were gaining acceptance at this this time, but I do not believe that the notion of "soul-mate" could really be read into the book - it's a bit of an anachronism in the movie (perhaps less so with the 1980s David Rintoul version).  Although one may have given thanks to God for putting their spouse into their path, the idea that it was predestined is probably a stretch. Also remember that Lizzy got along really well with Col. Fitzwilliam but he could not give her any further attention because he would need a wealthy wife - something Elizabeth could not give. 

 

I have to disagree with the highlighted statement.

 

God's providence reigns supreme over all.  He has also given us all our vocations.  Some are called to Religion, and some to the marital state, etc.  I am sympathetic to Saint Alphonso's position that it is necessary to know our vocation and respond to it, to receive the particular graces God has predestined for us to attain unto salvation.  If someone is called to Religion, there [i]is[/i] a religious house, a monastery, a convent or a cell out there intended for that one person, with all the graces that person needing waiting in eternity for the moment the brother or sister puts on their habit and kneels down in prayer.

 

Now is a nun needs her cell and the hermit his solitude, then surely a husband needs a wife?  :hehe2:

[Annie12]

No, I wouldn't say soul mates.  Lizzy exercises agency in rejecting Mr. Collins as well as both her initial refusal and subsequent acceptance of Mr. Darcy.  This seems most probably coming about by their mutual improvement in their own behaviours - this is what I would consider the workings of Providence - not their actual marriage.  Some have also argued that Lizzy may have been further urged on to accept him by her appreciation of the Darcy estate. I think she could have just as easily rejected Darcy for trying to "buy" her by salvaging Lydia. 

 

Companionnate marriages were gaining acceptance at this this time, but I do not believe that the notion of "soul-mate" could really be read into the book - it's a bit of an anachronism in the movie (perhaps less so with the 1980s David Rintoul version).  Although one may have given thanks to God for putting their spouse into their path, the idea that it was predestined is probably a stretch. Also remember that Lizzy got along really well with Col. Fitzwilliam but he could not give her any further attention because he would need a wealthy wife - something Elizabeth could not give. 

 

Would you say that it was not the Virgin Mary's destiny to be the Mother of Jesus? Or in Pride and Prejudice, would you say that Mr. Darcy was not placed in Lizzy's life because they were supposed to be married? Are all human actions completely free from the promptings of God?

[Basilisa Marie]

Would you say that it was not the Virgin Mary's destiny to be the Mother of Jesus? Or in Pride and Prejudice, would you say that Mr. Darcy was not placed in Lizzy's life because they were supposed to be married? Are all human actions completely free from the promptings of God?

 

There's a false dichotomy here.  Something can happen due to a prompting of God but also not be predestined.  The idea of "soul mates" insofar as it's one perfect person you're "destined" to be with doesn't hold theological water. Mary's "destiny" to be the Mother of God is only her destiny because she chose it. Destiny has to be a collaboration of God and the person. 

[truthfinder]

As much as I like Pride and Prejudice, I think it a rather odd to compare LIzzy with the Virgin Mary.

 

And An Historian, we know that there are many people who feel called to marriage but cannot find a spouse.  Marriage involves two parties cooperating with Divine Will and even then I'm not sold on soul mates.  There are two ends of marriage - and neither of these need to be fulfilled with a "soul mate". (I do understand that there are some very poor marriage choices).

[Annie12]

As much as I like Pride and Prejudice, I think it a rather odd to compare LIzzy with the Virgin Mary.

 

And An Historian, we know that there are many people who feel called to marriage but cannot find a spouse.  Marriage involves two parties cooperating with Divine Will and even then I'm not sold on soul mates.  There are two ends of marriage - and neither of these need to be fulfilled with a "soul mate". (I do understand that there are some very poor marriage choices).

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound as if I was comparing Lizzy with the Virgin Mary. That was just me going off on a tangent. I apologize. I guess I see what you are saying. I tend to make things more complicated than they need to be.

[truthfinder]

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound as if I was comparing Lizzy with the Virgin Mary. That was just me going off on a tangent. I apologize. I guess I see what you are saying. I tend to make things more complicated than they need to be.

No need to apologize :)

[An Historian]

As much as I like Pride and Prejudice, I think it a rather odd to compare LIzzy with the Virgin Mary.

 

And An Historian, we know that there are many people who feel called to marriage but cannot find a spouse.  Marriage involves two parties cooperating with Divine Will and even then I'm not sold on soul mates.  There are two ends of marriage - and neither of these need to be fulfilled with a "soul mate". (I do understand that there are some very poor marriage choices).

 

My response would be that if someone feels called to the marital life, but dies single, then their vocation was never marriage, it was the single life.  God will give you every single thing necessary to live your state in life and answer your vocation.

[ClemensBruno]

I would disagree with the concept of predestination. God gave us free will to do what we want with our lives. I think that choice is important. We must freely choose to accept Christ as our Savior. We must choose to seek God's Will. God may provide, but allows us to choose to accept His Grace.

When it comes to stories like Pride and Prejudice, like any author worth her/his salt, Jane Austen wrote with clear purpose in mind. A plot without direction, typically a young woman or man who, in a story, begins in innocence and ends in experience, is a recipe for a dull and poor novel. What seems like Providence in P&P is actually Austen's skillful talent in creating a compelling narrative.

Concerning soul mates, it is more likely that one has the potential to be the soul mate for a group of compatible people rather than one only. To complicate things further, both parties must desire to be soul mates.

[ClemensBruno]

I would disagree with the concept of predestination. God gave us free will to do what we want with our lives. I think that choice is important. We must freely choose to accept Christ as our Savior. We must choose to seek God's Will. God may provide, but allows us to choose to accept His Grace.

When it comes to stories like Pride and Prejudice, like any author worth her/his salt, Jane Austen wrote with clear purpose in mind. A plot without direction, typically a young woman or man who, in a story, begins in innocence and ends in experience, is a recipe for a dull and poor novel. What seems like Providence in P&P is actually Austen's skillful talent in creating a compelling narrative.

Concerning soul mates, it is more likely that one has the potential to be the soul mate for a group of compatible people rather than one only. To complicate things further, both parties must desire to be soul mates.

[An Historian]

Predestination is Catholic teaching, you can't disagree with it.  :smile3:

 

You have two choices.  Either take the advice of Saint Augustine "don't understand it, don't even try to, just accept it and move on" or you can study all about it, the Thomists, the Molinists, the French School, etc.  But predestination is a part of our faith

[ClemensBruno]

Oops. Sorry for the hiccup...

My advanced education was purposefully secular, so my understanding of Catholic dogma is lacking. However, I do recall Catholic predestination has many caveats, including the necessity of Free Will. Otherwise, predestination is Calvinism.

So, please, elaborate further on Doctrine.

[An Historian]

Oops. Sorry for the hiccup...

My advanced education was purposefully secular, so my understanding of Catholic dogma is lacking. However, I do recall Catholic predestination has many caveats, including the necessity of Free Will. Otherwise, predestination is Calvinism.

So, please, elaborate further on Doctrine.

 

Free will is one of the major distinctions between predestination in Calvinism and predestination in Catholicism.  But make no mistake, presdestination is entirely Catholic.  Calvin didn't pop up with it himself.  He simply warped the doctrine of Saint Augustine.

 

But you're asking the wrong man to elaborate on it.  I follow the "accept it, leave it alone" line1

[ClemensBruno]

Thank you, An Historian.

I've only read St. Augustine's "Confessions" and I don't recall that specific topic being elaborated in that book. I'll try to locate my copy and reread again. I'll also look into his other works, which I've been planning to read anyway.

John Calvin believed in a "pure" form of predestination, which, because of its simplicity, is what most people today think it is--at least in Protestant-based secular America. I recall from my Baltimore Catechism days that predestination was a highly complex notion that my very young mind could not truly grasp beyond that it's not what we think is.