Love The Sinner...

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

St Paul " 666 is the number of the anti christ and all you have to do is understand the nature of the beast."

 

I thought deeply about homosexuality after thinking about all of this. I used to think homosexuality was soly a life style choice but after thinking deeply about it i came up with the conclusion of Choice and Circumstance. I'm sure some choose to be homosexual but most are probably thrust there in and instant or over time by circumstance, any habitual sin actually has these roots, and usually by a witch or a bitch that is in a position of authority in there life and that is not a feminine statement because males can also play the witch or the bitch. Let me explain my thought on this, the witch is a master curser whom can curse a person in and instant with a word or action and a bitch is someone whom curses over time, one is an executioner the other is a torturer. So i think homosexuals have been cursed. So although we must cold shoulder people in the christian community whom are unrepentant and as st paul states particularly those with grave sexual disorders we must understand the nature of the beast and where it has come from, the origins. These witches and bitches curse i guess out of anger, lust, jealousy, envy and various other resentments.

 

I was cursed by a person in a position of authority, well a few times by various people in positions of authority in my life which led to many years of drug and alcohol abuse and sexual deviancy.

 

Okay these are just a few thoughts and unsure anyone can make sense of what i have just said except for me. <sighs>

 

God is Good.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

<multi post sorry it's important> We cold shoulder sometimes because we love someone because we are at our wits end and we need them to know that what there doing is wrong or in appropriate. Something like that anyway.

[Clare Brigid]

I used to think homosexuality was soly a life style choice but after thinking deeply about it i came up with the conclusion of Choice and Circumstance.

 

The most persuasive theory about the causation of same sex attraction that I have seen is that proposed by Darryl Bem.  He postulates that "the exotic becomes erotic."  In other words, at a critical point in our psychosexual development, we naturally eroticize the sex that seems most different from us.  Some boys have more sensitive temperaments and thus feel different from other boys.  This is why many (not all) such boys become homosexual.

 

I want to stress that this theory does not explain everything.  However, it is one good frame of reference for understanding why many -- perhaps most -- boys develop same sex attraction.

 

One practical implication is that parents should not push sensitive, gentle boys into rough sports against their wills.  It will only heighten their feeling of difference.  I had one friend whose gentle son was encouraged to go into fencing.  That was a perfect solution for him.  It is competitive and masculine while being refined and elegant and not too rough, and he could identify with other boys engaged in the same activity.

 

Here is a chart from Bem explaining how same sex attraction can develop:

 

[reyb]

 

It's not the Church that drives homosexuals out of the Church. The gays I know have left the Church of their own volition.

 

 

Except, of course, for the gay priests I know - they've stayed.

 

 

 

If someone doesn't want to "love the sinner but hate the sin," that's fine, I guess. You can figure out your own little mantra however you please. But it's still the best approach - for homosexuals, for people who cheat on their spouses, for gamblers, for alcoholics, for everything.

 

The other thing is, even the OP quotes Jesus with the woman taken in adultery - "Go and sin no more." Wouldn't Jesus say the same thing to a homosexual these days? It's not the being homosexual that's a problem, it's the sinning more. And the Church does have a ministry to gays to help them sin no more - it's called Courage, or Encourage, or something.

 

 

If someone is living in a state of habitual sin, that person is a sinner.  And we are called to love them, care for them and yes admonish them.  But we are not called to embrace their sin, to consent to it, to enable them in it.  Hate the sin, love the sinner.  It does what it says on the tin.

There is no dehumanisation going on.  It's a simple testament to the human condition.  We are all sinners.  And all I see right now is someone that has jumped on to the PC bandwagon and signed up for the "normalisation" homosexuality.

 

 

I think It means ' to give someone the cold shoulder.' But in context at another point St paul says something like " If one among you is not repentant of there sins you must not associate with them." 

 

To me this means if someone is openly a sinner vocally in pride i guess, than we are not to associate with them. If they are not going to confession, if they don't have sorrow for there sins, etc etc. But also i can't judge anyone as to whether they have true sorrow for there sins or not.

 

I have some friends whom are or seem to be habitual mortal sinners, and i do hate that fact but also i love them and treat them with love,respect and prayer. But also these people go to confession when they can and don't boast in there sin although they talk about it with me, but also if they weren't going to confession and there depravity was causing me or the community in general to have a distorted relationship with myself/themselves,life and the LORD than yes i would have to dis associate with them after trying my best to correct there ways in faith, hope and love, even if that made half the community act as if i was a Nazi, well i do hope i would have that courage to do what is right even at the expense of the love and respect of others.

 

Onward christian souls.

 

Jesus is LORD.

 

Obviously, none of you are for expulsion of homosexual or immoral persons. While Clearly, Apostle Paul did not teach ‘Love the sinner, Hate the Sin’ slogan because he said ‘do not associate with them’, and ‘expel them from among you’.

 

So, what will happen now to Apostle Paul’s instruction? Are you saying, 'Let us ignore it  because, something is 'not really right' with this instruction'?  (Since, according to you this instruction is not the best approach for homosexual Christians).

 

I know it is not a good sign to ignore Apostle Paul's instruction but, can anyone explain it better?

 

Edited January 5, 2014 by reyb

[Clare Brigid]

So, what will happen now to Apostle Paul’s instruction? Let us ignore it  because, something is 'not really right' with this instruction? 

 

 

If we refused to associate with sinners, no one would be at Mass on Sunday.

 

Here's the point:  homosexual activity is not the only sin.  Active homosexuals are not the only sinners.  Should we associate with gluttons?  People who violate the 5th commandment by chain smoking?  Gossips?  Guys with habitual road rage?

 

Why just focus on homosexuals?  Understand?

[reyb]

If we refused to associate with sinners, no one would be at Mass on Sunday.

 

Here's the point:  homosexual activity is not the only sin.  Active homosexuals are not the only sinners.  Should we associate with gluttons?  People who violate the 5th commandment by chain smoking?  Gossips?  Guys with habitual road rage?

 

Why just focus on homosexuals?  Understand?

I am not focusing on homosexual as sinners. I am simply following the flow of discussion from where, they say that ‘gays’ are sexually immoral persons while quoting verses in 1 Corinthians 5:9ff .

 

Okay let me correct myself.   

 

Obviously, none of you are for expulsion of sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler' .  While Clearly, Apostle Paul did not teach ‘Love the sinner, Hate the Sin’ slogan because he said ‘do not associate with them’, and ‘expel them from among you’.

 

So, what will happen now to Apostle Paul’s instruction? Are you saying, 'Let us ignore it  because, something is 'not really right' with this instruction'?  (Since, according to you this instruction is not the best approach for homosexual (i.e sexually immoral) Christians).

 

I know it is not a good sign to ignore Apostle Paul's instruction but, can anyone explain it better?

--------------------

 

Edited January 5, 2014 by reyb

[reyb]

If we refused to associate with sinners, no one would be at Mass on Sunday.

 

Here's the point:  homosexual activity is not the only sin.  Active homosexuals are not the only sinners.  Should we associate with gluttons?  People who violate the 5th commandment by chain smoking?  Gossips?  Guys with habitual road rage?

 

Why just focus on homosexuals?  Understand?

 

So, what will happen now to Apostle Paul’s instruction? Are you saying, 'Let us ignore it  because, something is 'not really right' with this instruction'? (Since you said 'if we refused to associate with sinners, no one would be at Mass on Sunday).

Edited January 5, 2014 by reyb

[Clare Brigid]

So, what will happen now to Apostle Paul’s instruction? Are you saying, 'Let us ignore it  because, something is 'not really right' with this instruction'? (Since you said 'if we refused to associate with sinners, no one would be at Mass on Sunday).

 

We should do the same thing we do with respect to all the other sins and sinful habits, including the examples I gave.

[reyb]

We should do the same thing we do with respect to all the other sins and sinful habits, including the examples I gave.

 

Do I have now the liberty to say that the Roman Catholic Church is ignoring this ‘Apostolic instruction’?

[add]

Jesus Calls Levi and Eats With Sinners

¹³ Once again Jesus went out beside the lake. A large crowd came to him, and he began to teach them. ¹⁴ As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.

¹⁵ While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. ¹⁶ When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

¹⁷ On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

[Clare Brigid]

Do I have now the liberty to say that the Roman Catholic Church is ignoring this ‘Apostolic instruction’?

 

We Catholics read Holy Scripture within the Church, "the pillar and ground of truth."  1 Timothy 3:`5.  We do not take one verse and draw our own conclusions from it.  That is rather what Protestants do.  And we have over 30,000 Protestant denominations as the fruit of that particular labor.  Each can quote the verses that justify their separation.

 

Yes, liberty you have.  The truth you don't.

 

Allow me to quote Bob Dylan from his 1983 song, Jokerman:

 

 

 

Freedom,

Just around the corner for you.

But with truth so far off,

what good will it do?

Edited January 6, 2014 by Clare Brigid

[Clare Brigid]

One more thing.  A great benefit to being Catholic is not having to try to figure these things out for ourselves.   

 

Edited January 6, 2014 by Clare Brigid

[havok579257]

I am not focusing on homosexual as sinners. I am simply following the flow of discussion from where, they say that ‘gays’ are sexually immoral persons while quoting verses in 1 Corinthians 5:9ff .

 

Okay let me correct myself.   

 

Obviously, none of you are for expulsion of sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler' .  While Clearly, Apostle Paul did not teach ‘Love the sinner, Hate the Sin’ slogan because he said ‘do not associate with them’, and ‘expel them from among you’.

 

So, what will happen now to Apostle Paul’s instruction? Are you saying, 'Let us ignore it  because, something is 'not really right' with this instruction'?  (Since, according to you this instruction is not the best approach for homosexual (i.e sexually immoral) Christians).

 

I know it is not a good sign to ignore Apostle Paul's instruction but, can anyone explain it better?

--------------------

 

 

so why are you here associating with us since i am certain some of us if not a big majority have commited at least one of those sins.  if your convinced your not supposed to avoid these people, then you should not be here associating with us.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously, none of you are for expulsion of homosexual or immoral persons. While Clearly, Apostle Paul did not teach ‘Love the sinner, Hate the Sin’ slogan because he said ‘do not associate with them’, and ‘expel them from among you’.

 

So, what will happen now to Apostle Paul’s instruction? Are you saying, 'Let us ignore it  because, something is 'not really right' with this instruction'?  (Since, according to you this instruction is not the best approach for homosexual Christians).

 

I know it is not a good sign to ignore Apostle Paul's instruction but, can anyone explain it better?

 

 

 

The cold shoulder is a form of expulsion. And i think the church has ex communication for homosexual priests that don't repent. And i never said ignore it, don't put words into my mouth please.

 

 

Jesus iz LORD.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

If we refused to associate with sinners, no one would be at Mass on Sunday.

 

Here's the point:  homosexual activity is not the only sin.  Active homosexuals are not the only sinners.  Should we associate with gluttons?  People who violate the 5th commandment by chain smoking?  Gossips?  Guys with habitual road rage?

 

Why just focus on homosexuals?  Understand?

 

 

Do you receive the precious body and blood when your in a state of mortal sin? I think where talking about mortal sin particularly habitual mortal sin that is not appropriately confessed with true sorrow and the desire to not continue with this sin and to do penance and make amends, i think we are missing this christian spirit that saint paul would have had.