CrossCuT Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Yep. I love how everyone is all for "heard immunity" of vaccinations yet happily touts the use of hand sanitizers which basically turns heard immunity into a joke by reducing killing off the lesser virus. If someone is immune deficient the last thing they should be doing is using hand sanitizer but rather being very careful about skin-to-skin contact and using non-antibactirial soap to wash their hands and doing it often. Studies have shown that the inappropriate and overuse of antibiotics contributes to superbug formation, not hand santizers. The active ingredient in hand sanitizer is usually either isopropanol, ethanol, or n-propanol and they act by denaturing the bacterias proteins or dissolving their lipid membranes so that they can no longer function. A bacteria isnt able to build resistance to that similarly how it is unable to build a resistance to fire. Antibiotics on the other hand function in a different way by binding to specific receptors or preventing important biochemical pathways from functioning properly. However there is a chance that a bacteria has a special adaptation in which to evade death...thus it does not die and lives to pass that gene onto its offspring. To say that hand sanitizers contribute to the same problem that anitiotics are causing is cray. Edited January 3, 2014 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Do you mean antibiotics? those too, but why not hand sanitizers? If you are constantly only leaving the strongest .01% of bacteria isn't that forcing them to evolve more quickly into a more resistant super bacteria race? It's just a guess, I'm not a scientist so if anyone has proof contrary then sure I'd take it. But I do understand elementary evolution, and if we are constantly killing off the weakest 99.9% then only the strongest of the strong are passing on that genetic info, won't the result be a more resistant gene pool overall? Where is L_D? I'd accept his ruling on the matter. IDK, could be wrong. Google sanitization and allergies. There's a line of thought that the over-sanitization is weakening immune systems and is part of the cause that incidents of allergies have increased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 those too, but why not hand sanitizers? If you are constantly only leaving the strongest .01% of bacteria isn't that forcing them to evolve more quickly into a more resistant super bacteria race? It's just a guess, I'm not a scientist so if anyone has proof contrary then sure I'd take it. But I do understand elementary evolution, and if we are constantly killing off the weakest 99.9% then only the strongest of the strong are passing on that genetic info, won't the result be a more resistant gene pool overall? Where is L_D? I'd accept his ruling on the matter. IDK, could be wrong. Google sanitization and allergies. There's a line of thought that the over-sanitization is weakening immune systems and is part of the cause that incidents of allergies have increased. I am a biochemist, will that gain your trust? I understand what you are saying but the mechanisms of antibiotics and alcohol are different when considering killing bacteria. The reasons antibiotics contribute to super bugs is the very reason you state; it kills off the weaker ones leaving those that are strong (with genes to withstand the drug) behind and viable for reproduction. However with alcohol, it doesnt kill the same way. I dont know a good way of explaining it but think of it like someone pouring a caustic all over you that dissolved off all of your skin...your organs would fall out and youd die. Thats how alcohol works on bacteria...then it is quickly evaporated and goes away. Of course some bacteria or other organisms may have strong shells or capsules that may be more difficult to penetrate, but it all works in the same manor. A bacteria cant engulf a new gene that codes for steel membranes so in a sense it cant build a resistance to alcohol. Different species of bacteria however have evolved to live in such environments but when we are talking about the ones that make us sick, its completely different. Also, the result of weakening immune system due to frequent hand sanitization use isnt something that is new ...if you dont expose your immune system to pathogens to fight off it will become weak...use it or lose it! However I have a VERY hard time believing that the use of hand sanitizers ALONE would cause that big of a deal. It would have to be a life style of germaphobia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 think of it like someone pouring a caustic all over you that dissolved off all of your skin...your organs would fall out and youd die no need to get so hostile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 no need to get so hostile Who is being hostile? :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I rarely wash my hands and I get sick maybe twice a year. I've never been bedridden in my life, and when I am sick, it's usually just a minor sore throat coupled with a runny nose. Take that, science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I rarely wash my hands and I get sick maybe twice a year. I've never been bedridden in my life, and when I am sick, it's usually just a minor sore throat coupled with a runny nose. Take that, science. The immune system is strong with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) I heard that some new research suggests that killing 99.9% of germs and bacteria doesn't stop disease and could possibly even create resistant super bugs. I don't know whether i believe it or not though. PO :LOL: Edited January 4, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 The immune system is strong with this one. It's genetics, and my black belt. I'm actually not joking on the second part. I'm sure you know that physically fit and active people get sick less and have stronger immune systems. People that practice karate regularly have notoriously good immune systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 It's genetics, and my black belt. I'm actually not joking on the second part. I'm sure you know that physically fit and active people get sick less and have stronger immune systems. People that practice karate regularly have notoriously good immune systems. Very true! When I used to work at a daycare I NEVER got sick! I was exposed to so much crap from those dirty children that my immune system was steel. But now that I havent worked there for 3 years, Ive noticed that I get sick much more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I heard that some new research suggests that killing 99.9% of germs and bacteria doesn't stop disease and could possibly even create resistant super bugs. I don't know whether i believe it or not though. PO :lol: 99.9% is a marketing ploy to get consumers to buy more product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 so when you use alcohol sanitzer there are NO survivors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 so when you use alcohol sanitzer there are NO survivors? There are always survivors. But if that is how you justify the creation super bugs then its a wonder why you wash your hands or bathe at all? The creation of super bugs isnt hinged on the survival factor alone; it relies heavily on the mechanism of survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) I read this cracked article that said showering only redistributes bacteria to other parts of your body. Take that, CrossFit CrossCut. Edited January 5, 2014 by CatholicsAreKewl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 There are always survivors. But if that is how you justify the creation super bugs then its a wonder why you wash your hands or bathe at all? The creation of super bugs isnt hinged on the survival factor alone; it relies heavily on the mechanism of survival. so those survivors, they survive for some reason right? Are they stronger then their buddies, and are they still viable to reproduce? If so then I would postulate that it's not sanitization per se but the rate at which we are using the stuff. Kind of like forcing evolution at a faster rate. Again I don't know these thing, just playing armchair scientist. Washing and bathing . . . well it's really to feel clean, get rid of dead skin, and remove any physical filth from your body. Maybe there's some bacteria killing going on too :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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