Different Military Training Requirements For Men And Women

[CrossCuT]

 

If you can't do even one pull-up, there's no way on earth you're going to be able to pick up a 180+ lbs man, with a 60 or 80 lbs backpack on you, and on him. You need a ridiculous amount of upper-body strength to do that. That's why we're talking about pull-ups. I have a lot more upper-body strength than my sister (Who is an average-sized girl with average muscle tone for a girl), and I would have a way better chance of accomplishing that than she would (Not that I would accomplish it, but I would be more capable because I have more muscle).

 

If you look at the physical differences between men and women at a large scale when considering their muscularity, men are dominant in that category. However that does not go to say that women are incapable across the board to do the same things. On individual scale there are exception to that rule all over the place. You cant make a broad policy on a generalization because that start to exclude people. Some women CAN do that...its only 3 push ups. 

 

Also the fact that they have never  been held to that standard before may have something to do with it. One shouldnt expect the women go from 0 to 60 in 1 second. It WILL take more effort for them (as a whole) to perform at the same level but that does not mean they are incapable.

 

My vote is to allow them to try, if they cant meet the standards that a job requires then I guess boohoo. But its better then just saying "Nope youre incapable" and then not even letting them try.

 

 

And I don't think it's necessarily fair to automatically assume women weren't allowed to see the front lines because they were deemed "incapable". Chivalry doesn't approve of letting women get shot at when there are perfectly fit men to do it instead. I read somewhere that women are more prone to PTSD, so this means that when women do see battle, they'll probably be the ones to crack mentally first. I personally don't like the idea of that.

 

This honestly just goes into a debate of feminism vs. chivalry. It's like a feminist saying to me "How dare you open the door for me? Do you think I'm not capable of opening it myself?" It's not that you're not capable, it's that it's simply a sign of showing dignity and respect. Well, back in the day, if you opened a door for a girl to show her honor and respect, you certainly wouldn't let her go into battle when you were more than capable of doing it in her place. I don't think it's fair to deem the men back then as chauvinistic pigs when they were simply following the Code of Chivalry. Were there sexist pigs back then? Yes. There will always be. But just like not every man today is a chauvinistic pig, not every man back then was, either.

 

 

Chivalry only exists because of sexism. It became a dignified to do things for women like holding doors, paying for meals, etc, because it was thought that women couldnt do those things themselves as easily.

 

Of course most men who think they're being chivalrous nowadays are just being nice, nothing wrong with that now, but its important not to use old traditions as a way of explaining why current systems are justified.

 

For example, blacks and hiring problems.

"Well in the old days, blacks were slaves, so it makes sense they people wont pay them to work nowadays"

You're using a racist tradition to justify modern social problems when in fact it is those very old traditions that CAUSED the social problems to begin with.

 

 

Also....

http://youtu.be/yvkS8Ew4uHQ

[CatherineM]

In my college weight lifting class, the person able to do the most pull ups was a girl. She was a very small gymnast. Put all of us to shame and was a bit freaky.

[KnightofChrist]

Chivalry only exists because of sexism. It became a dignified to do things for women like holding doors, paying for meals, etc, because it was thought that women couldnt do those things themselves as easily.

Of course most men who think they're being chivalrous nowadays are just being nice, nothing wrong with that now, but its important not to use old traditions as a way of explaining why current systems are justified.

True Chivalry exists as an extension of Christian charity and virtue.

Source: http://keepingitcatholic.blogspot.com/2008/04/catholic-code-of-chivalry.html?m=1

+Prowess: To seek excellence in all endeavors expected of a knight, martial and otherwise, seeking strength to be used in the service of justice, rather than in personal aggrandizement.


+Justice: Seek always the path of 'right', unencumbered by bias or personal interest. Recognize that the sword of justice can be a terrible thing, so it must be tempered by mercy, as God commands. If the 'right' you see rings true to the teachings of the Church, and you seek it out without bending to the temptation for expediency, then you will earn renown beyond measure. Be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil. Destroy Evil in all its monstrous forms. Avenge the wronged.


+Loyalty: Perform scrupulously your feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God. Never lie; remain faithful to your pledged word. Remain faithful and true to God and to those to whom you owe fidelity. Obey the laws of Chivalry, and all those of King and country which are not contrary to the laws of God. Never abandon or betray a friend, ally, or worthy cause.


+Defense: Seek always to defend and love your native land, your family, and those whom you believe worthy of loyalty. Defend the weak and innocent. Respect and protect women. Respect all those weaker than yourself, and constitute yourself their defender. Crush the monsters that steal our land and rob our people and defile our women. Defend the young and the old, and have reverence for life.


+Courage: Do not recoil from your enemy. Be prepared to sacrifice all in the service of God and virtue. Fight with prudence, but with courage. Never attack an unarmed foe. Never use a weapon on an opponent not equal to the attack. Never attack from behind. Exhibit courage in word and deed. Fight with honor and courage, even in the face of fear. Be Just and Merciful in victory. Do not torture. Die with valor.


+Faith: A knight must be devout in his Faith, for, apart from Salvation, faith roots him and gives hope against the despair that human failings create. He must obey and defend the Holy Catholic Church. Make war against the infidel without cessation and without mercy.


+Humility: Value first the contributions of others; do not boast of your own accomplishments, let others do this for you. Tell the deeds of others before your own, according them the renown rightfully earned through virtuous deeds. In this way the office of knighthood is well done and glorified, helping not only the gentle spoken of but also all who call themselves knights.


+Largesse: Be generous in so far as your resources allow; largesse used in this way counters gluttony. It also makes the path of mercy easier to discern when a difficult decision of justice is required. Be a benefactor to the poor, especially widows and orphans. Respect the special grace and dignity of those who strive in poverty through no fault of their own. Remember that stewardship requires you to care for and use with kindness all living creatures.


+Nobility: Live your life so that it is worthy of respect and honour. Do not lie. Do not cheat. Live for Freedom, Justice and all that is good. Exhibit self-control, respect for authority, and love of duty. Do your duty in all things. You can not expect to do more. You should never wish to do less. Seek great stature of character by holding to the virtues and duties of a knight, realizing that the quality of striving towards these ennobles the spirit, and refines it to take its place in Heaven. Nobility influences others and uplifts the weaker man by your example.


+Chastity: Keep yourself chaste for the sake of her whom you love. Do not choose to love one whom a natural sense of shame forbids you to marry. Be modest, polite and courteous at all times, and seek always to serve and protect women.


+Courtesy: Seek always to be polite, mannerly, respectful, and reverent. Cherish, as far as duty allows, the comfort of all you meet.


+Integrity: Seek to emulate everything I have spoken of as sincerely as possible, not for the reason of personal gain but because it is Right. Do not restrict Chivalry to individual areas of your life, but seek to infuse every aspect of your life with these qualities. Strive to become so infused with this code that your every action follows smoothly and naturally and without thought or consideration, so that any deviation from the Code becomes an outrage and an abomination to you. Should you succeed in even a tiny measure then you will be well remembered for your quality and virtue.

Also...
http://www.focusequip.org/ask-fr-mike/is-chivalry-sexist.html

[HisChildForever]

I read somewhere that women are more prone to PTSD, so this means that when women do see battle, they'll probably be the ones to crack mentally first.

 

Women are not more prone to PTSD. More likely to experience, not more prone...and it has nothing to do with mental strength.

 

After a trauma, some women may feel depressed, start drinking or using drugs, or develop PTSD. Women are more than twice as likely to develop PTSD than men (10% for women and 4% for men). There are a few reasons women might get PTSD more than men:

• Women are more likely to experience sexual assault.
• Sexual assault is more likely to cause PTSD than many other events.
• Women may be more likely to blame themselves for trauma experiences than men.

Also, just some food for thought,

Women in the military are at higher risk for exposure to sexual harassment or sexual assault than men.

Source here.

 

[PhuturePriest]

Women are not more prone to PTSD. More likely to experience, not more prone...and it has nothing to do with mental strength.

 

 

 

Also, just some food for thought,

 

 

Source here.

 

I never said it had anything to do with mental strength. I simply said they were more prone, which you graciously clarified for me. 

 

And yes, I am very much aware of that awful truth in the military. I'm not even really sure how it can be fixed, to be honest. You obviously court marshal people that rape or sexually assault others, but for some soldiers who suffer PTSD and want out of the war, that could possibly end up being a motive. It's definitely a very grave and complicated matter, which has no simple solutions.

[HisChildForever]

I never said it had anything to do with mental strength. I simply said they were more prone, which you graciously clarified for me. 

 

And yes, I am very much aware of that awful truth in the military. I'm not even really sure how it can be fixed, to be honest. You obviously court marshal people that rape or sexually assault others, but for some soldiers who suffer PTSD and want out of the war, that could possibly end up being a motive. It's definitely a very grave and complicated matter, which has no simple solutions.

 

I thought your initial comment that women would "crack" first implied mental weakness. My bad.

 

I'm not sure how intense the psychological screening is in the military but I definitely think there has to be rigorous violence/sexual assault risk assessments.

[PhuturePriest]

I thought your initial comment that women would "crack" first implied mental weakness. My bad.

 

I'm not sure how intense the psychological screening is in the military but I definitely think there has to be rigorous violence/sexual assault risk assessments.

 

If women were mentally weak, every woman would go mentally insane after delivering their first child. :P

 

I think the psychological evaluation used for men applying to the seminary would be a good fit. It asks a lot of questions concerning sexual maturity and mental health. There are a lot of guys who made it into the military that never would have been considered for seminary.

Edited December 31, 2013 by FuturePriest387

[CrossCuT]

If women were mentally weak, every woman would go mentally insane after delivering their first child. :P

 

I think the psychological evaluation used for men applying to the seminary would be a good fit. It asks a lot of questions concerning sexual maturity and mental health. There are a lot of guys who made it into the military that never would have been considered for seminary.

 

The set of job standards for the military and the seminary are likely different. 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Tell miss universe (muscle class) as in the female version of mr universe that she has not enough upper body strength, you have to check out some of those muscle chix Future Priest that could crack your head  and mine like a walnut between there pecs at the same time,lol. :) It's probably a general psychology that a women can't do a push-up that has been drilled in to them for however long, i guarantee you the miss muscle women can do more push ups and pull ups than you can or i can bruh. :) And what about the weight lifters in the Olympics and tae kwon do and judo and boxing chix in the Olympics?

 

 

Jesus iz LORD.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

<edit> Sure it is a fact men have a better natural upper body strength but women can have great upper body strength also, even enough to lift up a man of up to and possibly exceeding 220lbs, and we must not discount adrenalin also. I think a properly trained women with a good head on her shoulders can make a great soldier.

[CrossCuT]

 I think a properly trained person with a good head on their shoulders can make a great soldier.

 

I fixed it for you. :)

[CrossCuT]

True Chivalry exists as an extension of Christian charity and virtue.

Also...
http://www.focusequip.org/ask-fr-mike/is-chivalry-sexist.html

 

Too much reading.

 

 

 

Being nice, kind, and loving exists as an extension of christian charity and virtue. Chivalry existed originally because women were demeaned to the point of being considered less than men and therefore men needed to be extra nice to them and do certain things because they "couldn't do it themselves".

I think the intentions are the same but it has a slightly different meaning today. But if you want to claim the modern chivalry as being a Catholic thingy then go for it I guess.

 

[KnightofChrist]

 

Too much reading.

 

 

 

Being nice, kind, and loving exists as an extension of christian charity and virtue. Chivalry existed originally because women were demeaned to the point of being considered less than men and therefore men needed to be extra nice to them and do certain things because they "couldn't do it themselves".

I think the intentions are the same but it has a slightly different meaning today. But if you want to claim the modern chivalry as being a Catholic thingy then go for it I guess.

 

 

 

Too bad, reading is fun. Because it can at times help correct false notions such as Chivalry being sexist. Which is a bitter lie too often and mistakenly repeated that has no real basis in fact.
 

Edited December 31, 2013 by KnightofChrist

[Lilllabettt]

I think the US military is well qualified to know what kinds of task completion/failure are predictive of success in live combat. 

They've field tested the training in a major war every decade for the last 100 years.

[Ancilla Domini]

Frankly, I don't think that it matters a smidgeon whether women are physically able to fight in the military; what matters is whether they ought to, and whether it's in accordance with the way that God created them.

 

This business of women trying to do all of the things that the men have traditionally done is just messed up. God created man to protect women. This doesn't mean that women are inferior or weak just because the men are doing the heavy lifting.

 

Women have their own responsibilities, just as men do, and the women's responsibilities are NOT the same as those of the men. Just like it is woman's responsibility to bear children, and not man's, so it is man's responsibility is to protect women and children, and not woman's. How tragic it would be if women decided that the responsibilities of both sexes were one and the same and that women had just as much of a right to be in the army as men! There would be no one at home to raise the children, and to bring them up as good Catholics.

 

(On a somewhat separate note, the Devil wants more than anything to attack the woman. That is why he came and tempted Eve rather than Adam, and this is why he is behind abortion and artificial birth control. Our society today rejects the idea that women are sacred, and they want to say that women are "equal" with men.)

 

Well, there's my two cents. Just thought I'd throw it out there for you all to peruse. :)

Edited December 31, 2013 by Ancilla Domini