Question About Novitiate And Christmas

[NotreDame]

I would prefer to not reveal the community she supposedly belongs to since they have a strong internet presence and could be on Phatmass.

 

Now I am curious. :detective:
 

[OnlySunshine]

To add to the mix -- one of the communities I was with *did* let their members (professed and in formation) go home for Christmas.  It was quite wierd because the ones that stayed were usually international members.

 

I don't know 100% if 1st year novices were allowed to go home ... I assume that if the novitiate was canonical, they probably didn't go home (unless they went home for a week and then were extended a week?)

 

I'm going to try to give her the benefit of the doubt.  It's really hard to trust her, though, since she has betrayed my trust several times in the past but I need to forgive that and move forward.  ;)

[OnlySunshine]

Now I am curious. :detective:
 

 

<_<

[NotreDame]

Another reason psych evals can be helpful.  If she is severely bipolar a novitiate would be difficult on her and she would likely be difficult on her fellow novices.

 

MM - you can always PM me.  I can keep a secret.  I have legit reasons for being curious.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

Thank you to everyone for your answers. I don't feel comfortable approaching this person as we used to be friends but I decided to distance myself on the advice of my therapist, pastor, and mother. She shows signs of bipolar disorder and has extreme mood swings. She is very unstable. As far as I know, she is presenting herself to others as a novice since my other friend told me of her arrival and knows her better than I do. I would prefer to not reveal the community she supposedly belongs to since they have a strong internet presence and could be on Phatmass.

 

From what you've said, I suspect the pastor knows about this woman's situation, and not only by the fact that you have spoken with him. The woman probably asked for a letter or letters to future communities from him, or, if nothing else, he might have heard her confession.

 

It's unfortunate that the woman is presenting herself as a member of community to which she likely doesn't belong. Ideally, the pastor (and others) have counselled her to get medical help, since, if she is indeed bipolar, there are medications that can help this condition. I hope she is in counselling, as well.

 

I know must be very hard, or at least feel strange, not to approach this woman since you and she used to be friends. But, without knowing more about the situation, it sounds as if you are doing the right thing for you in not approaching her. I'm sure you are already praying for her, and I commend you for not wanting to discuss her with others, as this could encourage others to gossip, and this woman's circumstances are not really anyone else's business as long as she is not harming anyone. Especially since the woman's dress is not identical to the habit of her most recent community, she is unlikely to be harming the community's reputation. However, if the woman does something that seems like it might harm the community, or other aspects of her behavior are disturbing during Mass, then this is something to talk about only with the pastor.

 

But, as best you can, don't let her behavior worry you (although keep praying for her). Since you don't know her exact situation, and whether she is undergoing treatment etc. I think leaving it to the pastor seems best (at least based on what you have said). Even those with mental health issues are entitled to their dignity and privacy. If she approaches you, and it is a troubling encounter, then speak to the pastor. The woman needs people who talk with her and care about her (if that is what she wants), but you have no responsibility to be one of those people if that is not what is best for you.

 

BTW--Reading about this situation is a good reminder to all of us not to draw conclusions based on a woman's having been with four communities. Since we don't know whether she left the various communities or was asked to leave, ideally the other members of the parish will give her "the benefit of the doubt." (BTW--The generally good advice of giving someone "the benefit of the doubt" when you don't know all the details does not extend to a Religious communities with a candidate they are concerned about. I don't know the specific details of how each community handles this type of situation, but I strongly suspect that healthy communities don't dismiss their concerns and give candidates "the benefit of the doubt," but instead do their best to make sure sure as best they can that a candidate is a good fit for their community.)

[freedomreigns]

 

 

But, as best you can, don't let her behavior worry you (although keep praying for her). Since you don't know her exact situation, and whether she is undergoing treatment etc. I think leaving it to the pastor seems best (at least based on what you have said). Even those with mental health issues are entitled to their dignity and privacy. If she approaches you, and it is a troubling encounter, then speak to the pastor. The woman needs people who talk with her and care about her (if that is what she wants), but you have no responsibility to be one of those people if that is not what is best for you.

 

 

 

 

I completely agree with this, especially regarding respecting this woman's dignity and privacy...

 

Having left a religious community due to mental health issues of my own I can attest to the fact that other people speculating about me and why I left has been very hurtful, especially when they are not people who are an enduring part of my life- in which case they could actually talk to me about it.  Each of our journeys and struggles are ever so personal and none of us should be at the receiving end of other people's curiosity or judgment.  If this is a person you are no longer friends with then maybe the best approach would be prayer for her and to live and let live.  

[BarbTherese]

I completely agree with this, especially regarding respecting this woman's dignity and privacy...

 

Having left a religious community due to mental health issues of my own I can attest to the fact that other people speculating about me and why I left has been very hurtful, especially when they are not people who are an enduring part of my life- in which case they could actually talk to me about it.  Each of our journeys and struggles are ever so personal and none of us should be at the receiving end of other people's curiosity or judgment.  If this is a person you are no longer friends with then maybe the best approach would be prayer for her and to live and let live.  

 

Mental illness is a dreadful burden to have to bear and for the whole of life, even if potentially one regains stable mental health for all is possible to God; nevertheless, the burdened years likely will follow one and have a negative impact on hopes and dreams.  One really knows one has been stripped of all when one looses one's own mind.  Bipolar is usually episodic and in the sane or well times one looks back on the struggle times often with akin to absolute horror, sorrow and regret at what took place while one was ill, yet totally incapable of changing the past.  It is after all an illness, yet often treated by society as socially unacceptable, which it is but not due to one's own volition, while attitudes can reflect to the sufferer that it was somehow choice.  Those who suffer mental illness will probably have their hopes and dreams completely dashed for their entire lives and potentially loose not only friends but family (dependant on their attitudes to MI).  This is real loss and a terrible cross capable (dependant on attitude of the sufferer) of granting holiness.

Prayer for this woman.

[BarbTherese]

I suffer Bipolar Disorder.  For 20 years I was in the revolving door of a psychiatric ward totally unable to lead a normal life.  My behaviour at times was quite bizarre (though never violent) I can NOW recognize.  Then some 10 years ago suddenly and unexpectedly to medicine Bipolar retreated right into the background (it is likely a lifelong illness though quite 'dormant' one hopes)and I was able to lead a completely normal life, and as a contributor, in the general community - yet those 20 years follow me affecting my life and follow me especially in The Church and as a negative.  My psychiatrist thinks that I should not mention that I do suffer Bipolar and the second of the two major mental illnesses.  I don't see why I should HAVE to hide and prefer to take my place with sufferers.  But then "do the 'crime', do the time".  Often the spoken attitude in the Church and society is accepting and understanding, until it homes to 'hiring'.  Sufferers of MI most often need a heavy dose of their own of much forgiving and understanding, compassion for non-sufferers misunderstandings about mental illness.  At the same time, one needs to speak up about false stigma and concepts wherever they might occur and as not truth and unjust.

Of some interest, my doctor tells me that I am quite eccentric and others mistake these eccentricities for evidence of mental illness, which they are not.  The problem can be is that I don't recognize my eccentricities as such.

I understand completely and appreciate that the presence of mental illness is quite probably an indication that religious life is not willed by God for the sufferer.  There can be a quite long passage for most every person when one finds it very difficult to sort out one's own will from God's Will and the same happens with sufferers.  It takes a while, sometimes a long while, to grasp the many recognizable ways God does express His Will in life.  And then there can be that painful process of accepting God's Will Lovingly, and abandoning one's own.

 

I really feel for the woman in question and will keep her in prayer.   I watched a movie yesterday about the life of St Francis of Assisi and was familiar anyway with his story - not only was some of his behaviour quite eccentric, it was completely outside the square and around the bend. :)

 

I am sorry somewhat if I have dragged this thread off topic.

[OnlySunshine]

I have asked the moderators to close this thread.  I was genuinely concerned because I didn't know if I should alert someone or not.  Now that I have received the various answers, I do not wish to continue this thread - both for the woman's privacy and the privacy of the community.  Again, I will not be revealing the community's name - either here or by PM.  Thank you all for your understanding.