Why New Communities?

[Nunsuch]

I'm not asking this to be critical, but out of curiosity. In the short time (a couple of months) that I've been reading this site, I notice that most people (especially women) who are discerning religious life are focusing on relatively new communities. I am just wondering why--and why not more of those which have been around for a longer time?  I ask, too, because at least some of the "issues" that seem to be of concern to people seem to relate to this newness, and may not be so true of more established congregations.

 

Anyway, again please understand that I am not being critical, just trying to learn from what I read.  And if this question is inappropriate, I apologize.

 

[manymarys]

Sister (nunsuch) which community do you belong to?  My impression from reading your posts (reading between the lines) is that you are in a religious order or were in one in the past.

[TheresaThoma]

In reference to the original question I think it is difficult to say exactly why. There are many new communities out there and many of them seem to be a bit more open to using the internet and such which may account for their higher "visability".  This also may simply be a numbers thing. Sadly in the 60s and 70s some "older" communities just simply fell apart. I know a woman (who is now a CV) who that happened to. While trying to adapt they lost their identity as a community and thus just fell apart. So right now the new communities are more "visable" and appear to out number the older communities. 

 

Yes there are some concerns particular to new communities, but there are also concerns with older communities (ie can they adapt over time to meet the current needs while maintaining their identity).

[Nunsuch]

Thanks, TheresaThoma. Your explanation is helpful.  ManyMarys, I am not a sister, but I study the history of some communities, and am interested in the subject.  I raised the question simply because many of the congregations I study don't seem to get mentioned a lot. Perhaps TheresaThoma's explanation is the reason. I'm not trying to be difficult; I'm just curious.  It's interesting to me, because I study how many of the older communities began, and some of the same issues were at stake in the 18th and 19th centuries (and before).  My screen name is one that a friend gave me a few years ago; it was meant with affection.

 

[TheresaThoma]

Another reason might be that some older communities might not have a presence in the US, or a very limited US presence. 

 

If you have some good information about a community then do share it. I know I have personally discerned with a community because I learned about them on here. You never know you might lead someone to their vocation!

[brandelynmarie]

I am also understanding that the Holy Spirit blows where it will...that perhaps certain communities, even charisms are led into being for a certain time & place....be it years or centuries....

[OnlySunshine]

I have to agree with brandelynmarie.  Charisms and needs change as time passes.  What's important is that someone goes where the Holy Spirit leads them.  If it happens to lead them to new communities more often, then there must be a great need.  :)

[maximillion]

Perhaps because in the older, more established communities, discerner's reason that there is more likelihood of there being an element which may hark back to the past and maybe cling on to it.

I am not saying this is the case but is perhaps in the back of some people's minds.

Also, TBH I am not sure this is the case. Just because it seems that the self selecting population of phatmass appear to do this does not mean this is actually happening. There may be many discerners out there who have never heard of phatmass or VS or who for various reasons don't want to post here if they have.

[NotreDame]

Nunsuch,  from a guy's perspective... I am familiar with one newer female community with big problems and I'll explain while it still attracted people...

 

The biggest thing is that It was growing - if you entered, you entered with other girls (safety in numbers) and the fact that it was relatively new and growing meant you were joining a group with median age around 27 as opposed to other groups where the median age could be over 50.

 

The second biggest thing is that it presented itself very well.  It was also 'orthodox' (There weren't any LCWR types) and active.  You never actually heard about the problems, nor is very much of the funny stuff disclosed to you before entering.  Most girls have no reason to be suspect.

 

The third thing is that it would accept anybody and let them enter quickly.  It also didn't encourage real discernment.  Older orders are the opposite.   If you are interested in New Order and Old Order, Old Order is going to be asking you to pray and do paperwork while New Order is going to be telling you that God is calling you so why aren't you there yet.  (This also helps explain why it was growing and others weren't.)

 

So maybe in this context, explaining why some enter makes more sense?

 

[Cherie]

Nunsuch,  from a guy's perspective... I am familiar with one newer female community with big problems and I'll explain while it still attracted people...

 

The biggest thing is that It was growing - if you entered, you entered with other girls (safety in numbers) and the fact that it was relatively new and growing meant you were joining a group with median age around 27 as opposed to other groups where the median age could be over 50.

 

The second biggest thing is that it presented itself very well.  It was also 'orthodox' (There weren't any LCWR types) and active.  You never actually heard about the problems, nor is very much of the funny stuff disclosed to you before entering.  Most girls have no reason to be suspect.

 

The third thing is that it would accept anybody and let them enter quickly.  It also didn't encourage real discernment.  Older orders are the opposite.   If you are interested in New Order and Old Order, Old Order is going to be asking you to pray and do paperwork while New Order is going to be telling you that God is calling you so why aren't you there yet.  (This also helps explain why it was growing and others weren't.)

 

So maybe in this context, explaining why some enter makes more sense?

 

Honestly, I think a lot of these are spot on, not just from the community that NotreDame is describing, but for most newer communities in general. I know for me, these reasons had a lot to do with why I chose a "new community." People I knew who were discerning also chose newer communities for the same reasons.

 

1. Most of the newer communities tend to be not only orthodox, but traditional and "conservative." Among young vocations, there seems to be a huge resurgence in this more "traditional" mindset, and so they know they're going to get a community whose members will almost ALL agree with them on issues that are important to them. In the older, more established communities, you can have Sisters who come from all sorts of different mindsets--some consider themselves "traditional," others more "progressive," etc. I'm not saying either of that is "right" or "wrong" per se--there are benefits to being in a community of totally like-minded individuals, but also being in a community where, despite big differences, they all work towards the perfection of charity together; but it might give you a little insight as to why more women seem to approach newer communities.

 

2. Similar to my #1 is the fact that in a newer community, the median age is much younger, and that's more attractive to many prospective candidates, particularly when they are young.

 

3. Age of entrance is younger with many newer communities (I can think of 5 off the top of my head whose minimum age is 18, whereas it seems that most older communities' minimum age is at least 21 and requires college and/or work experience.) Lots of these women are considering entering after high school, and so the lower age of entrance is attractive. I know for me, I specifically sought out communities whose minimum age requirement was 18 (or less!) because I wanted to enter after high school.

 

I also do agree that for the newer communities, it seems as though the steps for entrance are not as rigorous. When I visited the "come and see" retreats for the community who taught me in high school--an older and more established community--they had a pre-candidacy, and then candidacy, then pre-postulancy, then postulancy, etc., and each step required careful discernment, requirements, and paperwork. For the newer community that I entered, I needed a recommendation from a priest and that was about it!

 

Another aspect that is superficial but true is the habit. I know a FEW women who refused to discern with a community whose Sisters had a habit in which their neck was uncovered (i.e. they wanted a wimple or a guimpe or something like that.) Some require that the habit or veil be a certain length, or they pick a community solely based on how pretty they thought the habit was. Most newer communities have a very distinctive and "traditional-looking" habit.

 

Now, please don't take me expounding these reasons as being critical of people who use them, because God is amazing and He can turn around even the most imperfect motives in order for His will to be accomplished. I'm not saying any of these reasons are right or wrong, per se. Plus, I don't mean to say these are THE major reasons that it seems many women choose to discern with "newer" communities vs "older" ones nowadays; simply that, for me and those in my own "microcosm" of people I knew who were discerning, these reasons indeed had a factor to play...and that, for the people I knew, probably 90% of them did exclusively discern with "newer" communities.

 

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

Excellent comments, Cheriemadame!

 

With regard to newer communities, one thing I have noticed from the women on Phatmass is that many of them begin their discernment with either a newer community, or one of the better-known older communities. However, during the process of discernment, many women learn about communities that aren't as "well-known," and when they finally enter, it might be with one of these lesser-known comminities.

 

I'm not sure that the communities we discuss most often on Vocation Station are necessarily an accurate indicator of the communites that VS members finally enter after discernment. There are a number of communities who may have a smaller number of postulants or not as large a presence on the Internet or in the press, but which turn out to be the community to which a particular individual is called.

[Nunsuch]

I have been off my computer all day, and then came back to find so many interesting answers to my original question!  Thanks to all of you who took the time to respond; your answers are all very helpful to me as I begin to get acquainted with this site.  

 

I read a recent study of women's vocations in the US (it's not yet published, but should be in the next 6 months), which indicates that current vocations are about evenly divided between more traditional communities (habit, common life and ministry, more traditional devotions, etc.--and a number of these are "new" in length of existence) and others such as those associated with LCWR (modified or no habit, less common life and ministry, etc.).  But since there are more of the "LCWR" (for want of a better term) communities, they are spread out more thinly.  Also, I think the comment about rigor of admissions processes might be a factor. A young woman I know recently entered an LCWR community (where she is very happy).  The process was quite extensive and rigorous, with many kinds of screenings and so on. She is in her late 20s and has a MA degree that provides her professional training, but during her formation period will also be studying for another MA in Religious Studies or Theology, which apparently is quite common in this congregation. This community would be reluctant to accept someone who did not already have a college degree, according to what she told me.

 

I mention this not because it is good or bad, but because it is so.  While this is the right "fit" for my friend, and while she isn't uncomfortable with the fact that she will be entering the novitiate in 2014 with just one other person (there are a couple more candidates entering--what used to be called "postulants," but this group says "candidates"), I can understand why such a small group might be a turnoff for others.  Also, this community does not wear a habit. For my friend, this wasn't an issue one way or another (she would have worn a habit if the group she felt called to wore one), I can understand why others appreciate this visible sign and would want the community they entered to have uniform dress.

 

I look forward to reading more.

[OnlySunshine]

I've also seen the other side of the coin.  I discerned with a community for a few months and they had been around for over 100 years.  Things were starting to get serious and then I visited them for an extended stay and realized they weren't as faithful to their charism as I'd hoped.  I found out from another Sister who had intimate knowledge of this community (she was part of the same order but a different province) that they often put on a show when Mother General would visit but they had become lax in the rules and Sisters were pretty much free to do as they pleased.  One thing I found very odd was that some of the junior Sisters lived apart from the community (still attached to the convent but apart nonetheless) so they had much more freedom than any other community I've witnessed.  They had their own kitchen and common area, too.  It was only them in the house - no senior Sisters lived in that part of the convent.  Apparently, this is where the postulants were also housed.  I've since lost contact with this community and I pray that they've changed but it was a sorry sight while I was there which just goes to show that not all of the older communities have it made, either.  If they drift away from the original charism and start going off on their own, it's real cause for concern.

Edited December 22, 2013 by MaterMisericordiae

[AuthorOfMyLife]

What would you consider to be a "new" community?

 

And are you referring to "new" communities of old orders, such as the Carmelites in Nebraska (I believe they are the "Jesus, Mary, and Joseph" Carmelites, and they seem pretty new to me)? 

 

Personally, I am interested in a community that does NOT consist of only 18-30 years olds. For the same reason, I am interested in a community that has members from different cultures (African, Vietnamese, Mexican, European, etc.). I think the community would be stronger for the diversity (but, of course, I know nothing of these things, having had no experience!).

 

Also, personally, the thought of entering with many other young women versus entering on my own would not influence me. I would actually be a tad concerned that a kind of "girlish enthusiasm" would carry things along if I entered with a large group, whereas a smaller group might be more conducive to the very serious discernment for each individual that seems required. 

 

This is an interesting discussion!