Duck Dynasty Dis

[KnightofChrist]

You know I understand why people use that phrase but that doesnt make it any less dumb and insincere.

I am sincere, I do not hate people, I hate sin. You judge me gulitly of something that could only be known in my heart, and you cannot judge hearts, I know because what you say is there isn't, and what I say is, it is my heart after all. Edited January 3, 2014 by KnightofChrist

[add]

Lol yeah because catholics don't have stds or use birth control.

 

or Greed - Wanting too much of something.

or Gluttony - Similar to greed, but gluttony is the action of taking too much of something in.
or Lust - The need to fulfill unspiritual desires (not just sexual desires, but this is usually what lust is associated with.)
or Envy - Jealousy; wanting to have what someone has.
or  Sloth - Being too slow or lazy at doing something.
or Wrath - Vindictive anger; angry revenge.
or Pride - Being too self-satisfied

[PhuturePriest]

Might need an anatomy class there tiger

 

Not perhaps the exact place, but the area as a whole regularly deals with and is touched by pee. Not the most sexy thought, really.

Edited January 3, 2014 by FuturePriest387

[Ice_nine]

urine is sterile inside the body.

[Aloysius]

love the sinner hate the sin is a way overused cliche, and its use by people who do not actually practice what they preach has really tainted it IMO, to the point where I view it on equal footing as the phrase "separate but equal" in terms of phrases I would never use or want to be associated with.  of course some people use it sincerely, but man the phrase is far too tainted to really come across as anything really useful or positive.

 

Moving away from all this descriptive stuff, that I was really trying to avoid (and which I've deferred to other moderators to decide about editing out for mature content if they decide it's necessary after a report as they would likely need to edit my posts too... personally I prefer open and honest discussions though I didn't really want to go into that kind of stuff here, but with underage people around it's not our place since their parentals probably have their own standards for what they'd want them to read/talk about), my main point is something KofC has agreed to on some level in principle, but which I think bears further repeating: quite frankly, we need to do much more in distinguishing ourselves from bullying and hatred than drawing some base intellectual line to exonerate ourselves.  The fact is, even for those who draw those lines and are sincere about them, and would be loving and compassionate to people in real life, their opposition to sins of homosexuality is still used as fuel for hatred and bullying.

 

I think of the example of a Protestant pastor I remember hearing about who was enflamed in a controversy because he basically said, while he doesn't condone bullying of homosexuals, that the impulse of people who bully homosexuals is a natural revulsion to it and is therefore understandable.  That's the kind of thinking I think about when people do an appeal-to-grossness... something far outside the moral theology of the body and far more in tune with bigoted visceral feelings.  An old friend of mine who is a homosexual tried to kill himself in the past year... we're not too close anymore, I knew him back in my undergraduate days, but still, it bothers me because as much as we like to sit in our ivory catholic intellectual tower and draw distinctions about how our positions are just based on faith and love and we still love the sinner but hate the sin, in real life that line is ephemeral as all hell... in real life us making that distinction does nothing for people.  When we sit here and encourage people to have some kind of macho "ugh I'm so disgusted by that, and that proves I'm normal and is totally consistent with my moral objections to it" thing (even though it's quite clear that attitude is culturally conditioned in the West and is not a universal natural reaction of "straight people" in other cultures), we're feeding fuel to a fire that we should not want to be any part of.  It's easy to draw simple lines, simple distinctions that make us feel better... it's hard to look inside ourselves and acknowledge that there is a need for a much deeper line in the sand.  and I think that's especially hard because people feel themselves in some kind of culture war and would view doing that as kind of weakening our position... but we should be ignorant and brave, have wars we hardly win and souls we hardly save (ballad of the white horse -Chesterton).  following Catholic sexual morality is about doing what is right, not being strategically correct to advance our agenda in society.  our strategy should be a love of Our Lord and a trust in His providence.

 

It would be easy to ally ourselves with a Phil Robertson kind of figure--it would be a strategically good move to rally people against things like same sex marriage, for instance, which is why Fox News types love Duck Dynasty so much more now as a symbol for the culture war.  but it would be wrong, and the ends do not justify the means.  we want to advance Catholic sexual morality in society... but not like that.  not by appealing to people's baser ignorance and hate through appeals-to-how-gross-and-vile-it-all-is (and yes, KofC agrees that we at least shouldn't primarily focus on that, so we have some agreement here which is something to build on I think)

[PhuturePriest]

urine is sterile inside the body.

So we learned a few pages previously. It still just doesn't seem to make it seem better for me, though. Call me crazy, but sterile or unsterile, I just don't want to touch pee.

[CrossCuT]

I am sincere, I do not hate people, I hate sin. You judge me gulitly of something that could only be known in my heart, and you cannot judge hearts, I know because what you say is there isn't, and what I say is, it is my heart after all.

 

Im not judging you. I expressed distaste in the phrase.

 

Youre judging me about judging you. 

[KnightofChrist]

Im not judging you. I expressed distaste in the phrase.
 
Youre judging me about judging you.

You seemed to question my sincerity since I used the phrase you distaste. I meant it sincerely. I'm not judging you, I'm defending myself and my words from your distaste.

[CrossCuT]

You seemed to question my sincerity since I used the phrase you distaste. I meant it sincerely. I'm not judging you, I'm defending myself and my words from your distaste.

 

I sincerely dont like the phrase, Im not judging you, Im expressing myself and my opinions of the phrase.

[Clare Brigid]

I am sincere, I do not hate people, I hate sin. 

 

"Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?  Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?  You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

 

Matthew 7:3-5.

 

The real problem here, I think, is in your focus on other people's sins.  As Our Lord tells us, it's really best to focus on our own sins.  That does not mean that the other person's sins are not sins.  It does mean that you are doing yourself and others spiritual harm by focusing on the sins of others.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Clare Brigid

[KnightofChrist]

I sincerely dont like the phrase, Im not judging you, Im expressing myself and my opinions of the phrase.

I can't help that you don't like it. All I can tell you is that I mean it. Expressing your distaste for the phrase right after I used it gave me the impression you don't believe that I am sincere, and it has likely given others that same impression.

[CrossCuT]

I really do think that the psychology behind the whole "love the sinner hate the sin" is not so black and white. While we might think we are being so high and mighty saying it to someone ...that somehow we are doing them a favor or building ourselves up to be these super tolerant beings while still maintaining our faith...just the fact that we are using the word hate and love in the same sentence drives me nuts.

 

I dont think we can completely escape the resentment from boiling over and dripping on the people themselves. Ive known some AMAZING Catholics and they still say horrible things about homosexuals even if they dont realize it. Its this subconscious hate that is really detrimental to our efforts in love.

[KnightofChrist]

font=garamond]"Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?  Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?  You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."[/font]
 
Matthew 7:3-5.
 
The real problem here, I think, is in your focus on other people's sins.  As Our Lord tells us, it's really best to focus on our own sins.  That does not mean that the other person's sins are not sins.  It does mean that you are doing yourself and others spiritual harm by focusing on the sins of others.

I've not judged any person here, I've not attacked any persons here, I've focused and attacked acts, or actions not people. This passage from the Bible does not forbid us from strongly arguing against sin, which we have a duty to hate. But as I have often said I in no way believe I am better than anyone else. I rather believe that if I am going to call anyone a great or if anyone person is a great sinner, or like Saint Paul a chief sinners it is I. I am lower than the dust, I assume that every other individual brother or sister in Christ, save maybe Hitler, is a much better person than I which it comes to being guilty of sin. Edited January 3, 2014 by KnightofChrist

[Clare Brigid]

I've not judged any person here, I've not attacked any persons here, I've focused and attacked acts, or actions not people. 

 

Sir, you are focusing on the sins of others.  That is the point.

 

Do you have any you can focus on?  It would be best, for you and for us.

[KnightofChrist]

I really do think that the psychology behind the whole "love the sinner hate the sin" is not so black and white. While we might think we are being so high and mighty saying it to someone ...that somehow we are doing them a favor or building ourselves up to be these super tolerant beings while still maintaining our faith...just the fact that we are using the word hate and love in the same sentence drives me nuts.
 
I dont think we can completely escape the resentment from boiling over and dripping on the people themselves. Ive known some AMAZING Catholics and they still say horrible things about homosexuals even if they dont realize it. Its this subconscious hate that is really detrimental to our efforts in love.

I am not high and mighty, I've not said anything about the persons who are homosexual, I would still say compared to homosexuals I am very likely a worse sinner than them. Nor am I any of these other things you seem to see in people that use the phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin". I adopted the phrase from Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen, and other saints and servants of God, but mainly him.

The real problem he is that I have said things, truths about the uncleanness of the act of sodomy that people do not like to hear. Rather that simply focus solely on my argument or actions, a respect I have shown, people in this thread have continually made the topic about my person, making judgement calls that cannot be known unless one can read minds. Judgement calls that I know no one would appreciate if I did the same, which is why I've focus as best as I have been able to focus solely on the topic and acts or actions.