Scenario: How Would You React?

[Byzantine]

Maybe Im a jerk or just a Roman Catholic but it feels to me like he is trying to exploit the dispensation...maybe thats a strong word but do you know what i mean? Maybe in his rite it isnt an exploit but it feels that way to me.

"I can be married AND be a priest, do biggy. Ill just get a dispensation."

 

I feel like thats not the right mentality.

 

Having to get the dispensation is (hopefully) a part of transitioning back to us being able to ordain married men freely, as we can in the old country.

 

As far as I'm aware, this doesn't have anything to do with Orthodox clergy who rejoin communion and seems to only apply to the act of ordination. We have several married priests who were ordained in the old country and immigrated here (at the invitation of one of our bishops, I understand). Last year, two married priests were ordained in the western US, but both were, while not old, older, i.e. the kids of both had already grown up and moved out. We have three that I'm aware of that are awaiting their dispensations before being ordained; one is a cradle ByzCat (with 4 young kids), one switched over from the Latin Rite (two kids born, one on the way), and one has a very interesting story that I'll not post on here (5 kids ranging from college to probably around 6).

 

Let's back up to the OP and assume the conversation everyone wants to happen between guy and girl had happened previously.

 

And mods, can the parts which are an argument over whether or not the Eastern and Western Catholic Churches are in communion or not possibly be moved elsewhere?

 

I get the fact that a girl raised Latin Rite would very likely have some serious reservations about becoming a priest's wife and that this would obviously require some serious thought and prayer.

 

My question in posting the thread was, what would you, the parent, think?

[AnneLine]

Byz, I like the way you both answered our concerns, and suggested (exceptionally tactfully!) that we get back on the question at hand.  (If you want the mods to make that change, report your own thread! ;) I bet they will do it!)

 

Byz, we'll accept your 'stipulation' that the gentleman and his beloved have already had all the required conversations, and that she is doing all the necessary soul-searching, and that he is doing all the checking it twice with his Eparchy (or whatever)....

 

The question for the gentleman from a potential mother-in-law would lbe:   will you make my daughter happy?   can you support my daughter and/or can the two of you make it work as a couple financially, emotionally, physically?   What are your contingencies if you do/don't get the ok to get ordained?   If I were the potential mother-in-law, I would be both asking for the answers.... but more importantly, I'd be evaluating what both he and my daughter were saying and how they were working together.  I know enough to know that people in love aren't always practical... and that is OK to a point.  But I would want to be pretty sure from hisanswers AND the way he was/they were answering them (i.e., 'I don't have the answer to that question... but it is on my radar, and I am in the process of getting it answered'; or 'we have already discussed this and we have x, y, and z determined and we are still praying about m, n...' AND, perhaps most importantly, 'We aren't totally to the point of getting engaged, but wanted you to know about this possibilitly because it is starting to get serious, and we don't want to dump it on you at the last minute...'  THOSE would be interesting to me as a potential mother-in-law.... and would go a long way to getting me on his side....

 

I would want to have some hard facts about, if he was teaching HS, what might the $$$ and benefits would look like, and if he were to be ordained, what would THAT $$$$ and benefits would look like.  And insurance.  And housing.  Bottom line... have the two of you thought this through?   

 

So... yup, the guy would need to at least let me know (ideally volunteered BEFORE  I asked him!) that he/the two of them had this stuff on the radar.

 

I'm praying for this guy... and ALL the guys & gals that will have, uh, interesting conversations with potential in-laws this Christmas.....

[HisChild]

Right. Your scenario was presented: I am the parent of a daughter and her beloved might possibly become more than just a boyfriend, although they are not yet engaged. He has no desires for a career with much financial potential. In fact, if given proper dispensation, he could become a priest...or a teacher, if not. Your directive: AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnddddddd react.


My response isn't so much to seek more from him, but from her. Hence my post and inquiries as to her thoughts of Rite changing and potentially being involved in his ministry. If she's okay with where that might take her, I, as her parent, would rejoice with her.

[Anastasia13]

I thought Byz's kids would be Eastern Catholic. I don't get it.

 

It's amesome he is Eastern Catholic. There is much tradition and history that is not told in Western Christianity.

 

I'd wonder if the guy is really ok with getting a teaching credential or what not. And if my daughter is majoring in philosophy or theology or something, is she getting a credential, going to law school, something like that, and if not, did she take those typing and computer courses I wanted her to take at community college or a practical minor with plans for good internships? (Is the guy going to do similar things? I don't want a lazy brainiac who can't put food on the table fathering kids in the family, (not to be harsh, he's not married yet so I would have stricter standards for my acceptance of his presence, post wedding I'd have less say in the matter and more reason to want him sticking around)) If he gets serious with my daughter though, he better be willing to live without a dispensation before he breaks her heart.

 

You know what, maybe y'all should just become Byzantine. Liturgies are fun in the east.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Light and Truth

[Anastasia13]

There has been a long early tradition of celibacy in the Church, but also an early tradition of married clergy.  The Eastern Rites (which in some cases left with the orthodox and re-joined Rome later) in many cases never dropped the tradition of married pastors.  Parish priests in these rites could often be married and but only serve as parish priests while celibacy was reserved for monks and the hierarchy (ie. bishops.)

 

And back to the whole "different rites are almost different religions" thing people keep bringing up.  As someone that was baptized ukranian, raised in a byzantine Church (because we moved), then attending almost exclusively roman rite (often in Spanish)... I don't see it this way and I think it's a very imprecise way of explaining the gap.  I think the divide you are seeing isn't religious so much as it is cultural or experiential.

 

I know there are people from my Ukranian parish that would see going to a roman rite as a huge deal, but they are Ukranian and speak Ukranian as their first language and, from a cultural standpoint, would not feel comfortable.  They had a son that got married and changed to Russian Orthodox (I know he became a deacon and think he wanted to become a priest.)  His mother wasn't bothered so much by him becoming Orthodox as by the fact that he joined up with the Russians (Catholic Uki's don't like Russians.)

 

So on paper these rites are all the same religion and dogmas.  To say otherwise is just false.  However, the cultural divides are great and sometimes significant.

 

This is so eastern. You get it. I want to extra prop the culture not religion part.
 

Edited December 18, 2013 by Light and Truth

[NotreDame]

You know what, maybe y'all should just become Byzantine. Liturgies are fun in the east.

 

Ha ha, that's a good way to put it!

[Anastasia13]

Ha ha, that's a good way to put it!

 

Liturgy in the East, it's not just an obligation, it's Divine.

[AnneLine]

boo... hiss.....

 

(for the humor, not the sentiment)

Edited December 18, 2013 by AnneLine

[Byzantine]

Thanks all!

 

 

Liturgy in the East, it's not just an obligation, it's Divine.

I am incensed by this humor >:( :)

[Cherie]

My question in posting the thread was, what would you, the parent, think?

 

Honestly? My immediate reaction, without thinking on it much (and realizing it's probably extremely judgmental for me to be thinking this) is what Crosscut said:

 

 

Maybe Im a jerk or just a Roman Catholic but it feels to me like he is trying to exploit the dispensation...maybe thats a strong word but do you know what i mean? Maybe in his rite it isnt an exploit but it feels that way to me.

"I can be married AND be a priest, do biggy. Ill just get a dispensation."

 

I feel like thats not the right mentality.

 

I've met a FEW men, some of them seminarians, who had this mentality. "I want to be a priest but I want to be married so ...... instead of properly discerning my calling I'll just pick both! Yay for Eastern Rite married priests!!!" This guy is a little different, I guess, in that he thinks he'll definitely end up in seminary, girl or no, but still...

 

I think as a parent who was ALSO a former religious who went through years of my own discernment, I'd be wary. I tend to be a skeptic at first anyway, though. And I am being RAW in my honesty here. It really is pretty judgmental for me to automatically be skeptical of him, huh? But hey, I'm just being honest in admitting that was my first thought.

 

But ultimately, the discussion lies with my daughter, and I'd need to know a whole lot more about her thoughts on this before I'd proceed in forming my opinion on it.

 

[Anastasia13]

Honestly? My immediate reaction, without thinking on it much (and realizing it's probably extremely judgmental for me to be thinking this) is what Crosscut said:

 

 

 

I've met a FEW men, some of them seminarians, who had this mentality. "I want to be a priest but I want to be married so ...... instead of properly discerning my calling I'll just pick both! Yay for Eastern Rite married priests!!!" This guy is a little different, I guess, in that he thinks he'll definitely end up in seminary, girl or no, but still...

 

I think as a parent who was ALSO a former religious who went through years of my own discernment, I'd be wary. I tend to be a skeptic at first anyway, though. And I am being RAW in my honesty here. It really is pretty judgmental for me to automatically be skeptical of him, huh? But hey, I'm just being honest in admitting that was my first thought.

 

But ultimately, the discussion lies with my daughter, and I'd need to know a whole lot more about her thoughts on this before I'd proceed in forming my opinion on it.

 

Maybe he grew up with married priests and maybe this Roman seeming exclusivity of marriage to a woman and priesthood seems strange to him but he recognizes and respects Rome's say over the administration of this. Maybe he even grew up Orthodox where many priests are married (prior to ordination). (Orthodox automatically become an Eastern rite when they come into communion with Rome.

 

Side note: maybe the guy will become a deacon instead.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Light and Truth

[Cherie]

Maybe he grew up with married priests and maybe this Roman seeming exclusivity of marriage to a woman and priesthood seems strange to him but he recognizes and respects Rome's say over the administration of this. Maybe he even grew up Orthodox where many priests are married (prior to ordination). (Orthodox automatically become an Eastern rite when they come into communion with Rome.

 

Side note: maybe the guy will become a deacon instead.

 

Yep, like I said, it was a totally judgmental reaction. There are a TON of possible--even great--explanations that could make his situation perfectly understandable. I'd need to get to know him a bit better, too. Plus, I am TOTALLY Roman, that affects my thinking on it, too. But since the OP wanted us to react, that was my immediate reaction.