Scenario: How Would You React?

[Byzantine]

Okay, this might belong in VS, but here goes. Just want to see the reactions.

 

Your daughter, who is in college with a non-money-making major (theology, history, Humanities and Catholic Culture, etc, you get the idea) is introducing boyfriend, who has a similar sort of major. Naturally, you want to know what sort of plans he has to take care of your daughter should this lead toward marriage, so you ask. He explains to you that he's discerning a call to the priesthood and, responding to your quizzical look, says that he's of the Byzantine Rite and with a dispensation his bishop could ordain him a married priest. When asked how likely it is that he would get said dispensation, he replies that he doesn't know. When you ask how many such dispensations have been issued, he again doesn't know. When you ask what he would do if he didn't get said dispensation, he replies that he'd probably teach religion/Latin/history in a (most likely Catholic) high school.

 

AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnddddddd react.

[cmaD2006]

Nah Byzantine, it belongs here.  You will get much more interesting answers here in Open mic, that's for sure.

 

My personal reaction would be:

 

a) to daughter "um -- you may not want to marry a man who doesn't know if he wants to be a priest or not"

b) to boyfriend "go figure what you want first, then date my daughter"

 

But I don't have children, so...

 

 

[Basilisa Marie]

Yeah, I'd focus on the priest thing first.  For us Romans, that's mighty off-putting.  Also figure out how likely the dispensation is. Because the way it usually works is that you have to be married before you get ordained, so...

 

Discerning one vocation at a time is tough enough as it is. 

 

Also what does she think about it? Her opinion matters more than her dad's. Does she plan on working? If you don't get a dispensation, would you eventually resent her for it? 

Edited December 16, 2013 by Basilisa Marie

[blazeingstar]

He sounds young and confused.  To him "priest" might mean minister or it might be vocation.  But think of it this way, if you grew up with married priests why would you ever consider being a celibate priest?

 

I think that the inference of "non money making major" can be kinda stigmatizing.  Recent studies have show that the average overall is not that far different...it depends on what you're doing for work.

 

I think the main issue is that she's dating someone outside of her religion.  That's asking for trouble.  Without showing that it was a bad idea I'd ask her her feelings and insecurities about being married to a priest.  It might have been how he was raised, but it was not her reality and if she was raised right something in her would be alarming her to things not being right.

[PhuturePriest]

He sounds young and confused.  To him "priest" might mean minister or it might be vocation.  But think of it this way, if you grew up with married priests why would you ever consider being a celibate priest?

 

I think that the inference of "non money making major" can be kinda stigmatizing.  Recent studies have show that the average overall is not that far different...it depends on what you're doing for work.

 

I think the main issue is that she's dating someone outside of her religion.  That's asking for trouble.  Without showing that it was a bad idea I'd ask her her feelings and insecurities about being married to a priest.  It might have been how he was raised, but it was not her reality and if she was raised right something in her would be alarming her to things not being right.

 

She's not dating someone outside of her religion, they're dating people from different Rites. Totally different thing.

[blazeingstar]

She's not dating someone outside of her religion, they're dating people from different Rites. Totally different thing.

 

While its under the umbrella of "rites" it is a very different set of core beliefs and practices that look FAR different from each other.  Barring the Real Presence, Anglicans are closer to Latin churches than are Eastern ones. There are very big differences in traditions and practice and dogma

[PhuturePriest]

While its under the umbrella of "rites" it is a very different set of core beliefs and practices that look FAR different from each other.  Barring the Real Presence, Anglicans are closer to Latin churches than are Eastern ones. There are very big differences in traditions and practice and dogma

 

They have different traditions, but they are the same religion. If Byzantines didn't believe in the Dogmas of the Church, I don't believe they would be allowed to go under the title of "Catholic".

[Byzantine]

Yeah, I'd focus on the priest thing first.  For us Romans, that's mighty off-putting. Figured as much. Also figure out how likely the dispensation is. Because the way it usually works is that you have to be married before you get ordained, so... Exactly.

 

Also what does she think about it? Her opinion matters more than her dad's. True. Does she plan on working? If you don't get a dispensation, would you eventually resent her for it? Funny. I hadn't thought about that.

 

Just to slightly clear things up, discerning = "Most likely going to end up in the seminary at some point. Married or unmarried is the question."

 

She's not dating someone outside of her religion, they're dating people from different Rites. Totally different thing.

This.

While its under the umbrella of "rites" it is a very different set of core beliefs and practices that look FAR different from each other.  Barring the Real Presence, Anglicans are closer to Latin churches than are Eastern ones. There are very big differences in traditions and practice and dogma

Seems like you might be thinking of the Orthodox. The hypothetical scenario involves two Catholics of different rites, two people in communion with each other. Perhaps I should have specified that this is a dispensation from Rome? If this was an Orthodox guy, the bishop wouldn't need such a dispensation.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Byzantine

[PhuturePriest]

Just to slightly clear things up, discerning = "Most likely going to end up in the seminary at some point. Married or unmarried is the question.

 

This.

Seems like you might be thinking of the Orthodox. The hypothetical scenario involves two Catholics of different rites, two people in communion with each other. Perhaps I should have specified that this is a dispensation from Rome? If this was an Orthodox guy, the bishop wouldn't need such a dispensation.

 

People sometimes think that because Eastern Rites have different traditions and different outlooks on things, they are completely different to the Roman Rite. This is wrong, of course, but it is something I have noticed among people who don't know a lot about other Rites.

[Byzantine]

People sometimes think that because Eastern Rites have different traditions and different outlooks on things, they are completely different to the Roman Rite. This is wrong, of course, but it is something I have noticed among people who don't know a lot about other Rites.

Meh. It happens. It even happens among Easterners looking at the West, it seems to me.

 

So, back to the question at hand.

[PhuturePriest]

Meh. It happens. It even happens among Easterners looking at the West, it seems to me.

 

So, back to the question at hand.

 

I'm not a father, but I do have a sister, and if the man she married presented this question, this would be my opinion on the matter:

 

The vocation to the Priesthood is a personal vocation in that it relates only directly to you and God, so discerning that by yourself thus far has been fine. However, when the prospect of marriage is added into the mix, it suddenly relates to the woman you are thinking about marrying as well. So, that means you can no longer discern it by yourself as long as you are dating her and thinking about marriage with her. You have to discern it together, just like you have to discern marriage together. You think that being a priest and being married would be fine, but what about her? Does she feel called to be the wife of a priest and handling all that entails? Would you resent her if Rome didn't give you the dispensation?

 

Ultimately, the question is this: If you had to choose, which one would it be? That really is the deciding factor in this. If you can't live with the thought of not being a priest, is taking the risk of not being able to by being married worth it to you? If your answer is "no", then to me, as the brother of my sister, I would take that as a sign that your heart isn't as into the relationship as it should be. This is not bad; it simply says to me that you most likely more called to the celibate priesthood.

Edited December 17, 2013 by FuturePriest387

[blazeingstar]

People sometimes think that because Eastern Rites have different traditions and different outlooks on things, they are completely different to the Roman Rite. This is wrong, of course, but it is something I have noticed among people who don't know a lot about other Rites.

 

Actually it's because I am good friends with a Melkiate Catholic who's daughter married a Roman Catholic and is often forced to go to Roman Catholic Mass to meet his obligation.  He's the one who expressed frustration that they were inherently different religions even tho they are under the same umbrella.  I imagine this would go double for someone in a rite with married priests.

[Maggyie]

I think the key issue is what does your daughter think? What are her plans for her career?

 

If she has ideas for how to support herself, and plans to, then fine.

 

If her plans are limited to getting married, not so fine. Women in this situation have to be quite a bit pickier. Given that they will become completely dependent on a partner to make sure they have bread to eat and a dry place to lay their heads. The choice of that partner and his ability to Provide with a capital P is almost all that matters. Future full time seminary students don't often show up in this category.

 

But if she is capable of feeding herself, and would be willing to provide for her husband instead of the other way around, no big deal. The liberal artsy major poses a challenge but not an insurmountable one. The key is willing and able.

[cmaD2006]

Just to slightly clear things up, discerning = "Most likely going to end up in the seminary at some point. Married or unmarried is the question."

 

 

So ... does that mean that the boyfriend needs to marry before becoming a priest? 

 

It does make a difference -- if he is willing to chance that a dispensation isn't granted for him to become a priest and is in love with the girl regardless, this says mountains.

 

Now ... if it is more like if I can't get a dispensation then I won't marry so that I can be a priest -- that's another story.

 

I'm sorta confused about the dispensation part. (And yes I understand we're talking a different rite here :) ).

[AnneLine]

I will keep this guy and all of this in my prayer.   

I've put together some things he probably should think about/pray about/talk about BEFORE having that discussion... hope these might at least be helpful while weighing options....

 

It seems to me that this guy really does need to talk with his girlfriend, and also have a serious talk with his spiritual adviser and/or possibly with the bishop's office (if not the bishop) about what the reality might mean either way... and have a long and serious talk with the girl LONG before it is discussed with her family.   The two of them HAVE to have the answers ready when the time comes to talk to the parents.

 

It seems to me our guy needs to know what the likelihood is that a dispensation could be had, and what it would mean if one were granted.  AND... even if the Bishop's office would be open to a dispensation for a married priest, they may have some strong feelings about having as a wife someone who was in a different rite.

 

Has this guy had this conversation with his potential mate?  Does she like attending Byzantine liturgies?   Even remotely open to being Chrismated?  Would either of them have a strong feeling about how the children would be raised, if God sends them?  How about the parishioners.... I could imagine they might not be too happy if the children were raised in the Roman rite...

 

Are there any obligations that would fall to his wife if he were ordained?  Does she have the option of a specific role -- or a strong expect ion--or a requirement -- that she do certain things?  Live in a particular way?   (For example, keeping all the Eastern Church fast and abstinence rules - how would she feel about that?  How would a potential wife feel about her husband being involved in Church services each and every major Feast?  To what extent would she have to be ready for parishioners to drop in at a moment's notice?  All of these could make a HUGE difference for how a woman would feel about getting married..

 

Does housing come with this option?   If not, how much realistically WOULD a Byzantine priest be likely to have at his disposal each month?  Because it WILL make a difference.. are we talking hundred, thousands?  Does the Eparchy provide housing?  medical insurance?  schooling for any children God sends?    Do most Byzantine priests hold down a second job?   If so, this guy could be juggling TWO jobs, and that is bound to affect the family.