Eucharistic Theology Is A Deception

[reyb]

With due respect to all, I want to clarify my arguments in ‘The Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is a Lie’, because our discussions are not yet settled.

 

 

In ‘The Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is a Lie’, I put emphasis on nullifying to eat the bread from heaven more than once citing John 6:32-65. Actually, you cannot eat it twice because this offering was done just once and for all (Heb 9:27). Thus, I asked if the Eucharist is truly the ‘bread from heaven’ or Christ himself,  why do you need to eat it again and again?

 

And I got some answers from that topic which I will discuss them here. (Please see ‘The Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is a Lie).

 

To PEACH_CUBE,

 

Catholics are required  to take Communion once a year although a good Catholics receives Communion every Sunday or every day. (please https://www.olrl.org/Lessons/Lesson22.shtml ).

 

 

And this is precisely what I am talking about. If the Eucharist is Christ himself  then, what is the sense of doing it repeatedly considering you have the assurance of eternal life for ‘He is in you and you are in Him’ when you took it the first time? (please see John 6:51-57).

 

 

To SAINT THERESE, CATHERINEM, DOMINICANSOUL, MARK OF THE CROSS,

 

 

Your argument as if the power of Christ was gone, is not in accordance with the scripture.

 

It is written in John 6:56-57 ‘ Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.’ The scripture plainly said ‘...remains in me, and I in Him’. Thus, if the Eucharist is truly the bread from heaven as stated in the scripture. Then, your battle must have been definitely over because, (1 John 3:9), ‘the Devil’s work are already destroyed...’and ‘...he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.’

 

Your own reasons reveals that the Eucharist is not the bread from heaven as mentioned in the scripture because, it gives you a momentary relief and spiritual satisfaction but you are still wanting for another round.

 

Desertwoman and Mommas_Boy cited 1 Cor 11:23-26 giving emphasis in 1 Cor 11:25  saying ‘

In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.".

 

If I will follow your line of thought, something is not clear whether you truly looked at the Eucharist as Christ himself or just a ‘sign’ of Christ.

 

Proponents of Eucharistic Theology are always saying ‘Christ himself is the Eucharist’. They proudly confessed that the Bread in Last Supper is the same Bread in every Church and for all time in the history of the your Church even in heaven and on earth. All of them are just one Bread offered just once which is called, a moment of eternity.

 

If everything about Eucharistic Theology is true. Can you please explain to us how that act becomes a ‘remembrance’ of an ‘actual’ thing?

 

 

Is that act of offering for remembering or an actual thing? Which is which?

 

 

Even up to now, You do not have a memory whatsoever of the real One. 

Edited December 12, 2013 by reyb

[CatherineM]

I guess brushing my teeth once will keep them clean forever.  We eat everyday in feed our bodies to sustain our physical life.  We eat of Jesus' food to feed our souls and sustain our eternal life.

[Golden Years]

"If the Eucharist is Christ himself  then, what is the sense of doing it repeatedly considering you have the assurance of eternal life for ‘He is in you and you are in Him’ when you took it the first time?" 

 

We do it because we love Him and want to be more perfectly one with Him and each other and to receive all of the blessings and graces which He gives us.  Have you ever thought of becoming Catholic?  Obviously you have thought about these things very deeply. 

 

Blessings,

 

Golden Years

[blazeingstar]

That wouldn't really explain Eucharistic miracles, however, which are not reqired to believe but give us some proof we are acting in accordiance with God's will.  Jesus wanted us to "do this in memory of me"  which is a command we must follow as he declared it was his body and blood.

 

Also St. Catherine Laboure?  I believe who lived in France and is known for the Miraculous medal  was given the promises of Mary to combat the idea that Communion reception should be infrequent (although Mass attendance should be mandated Daily).

[havok579257]

reyb it seems you back again.  so have you changed your philosophy?  will you now answer questions people ask you or will you refuse to answer them and only ask questions of others.

[reyb]

reyb it seems you back again.  so have you changed your philosophy?  will you now answer questions people ask you or will you refuse to answer them and only ask questions of others.

I will try my best.

 

I see that I am a little off bit in giving responses in my previous post. Like for example what I did to Desertwoman in post # 25 ‘The Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is a Lie’.

 

And then, in post #27 I am questioning her if she is really recognizing the body of Christ and then throw an off bit question.

 

In my mind, I consider them (communicants) believers of transubstantiation thus, I asked whether she is really recognizing the body of Christ thru that Eucharist or it is just a sign or symbol since she is saying about ‘remembering’.

 

In the beginning of this post, I am making my response to Desertwoman and I am hoping it is now a little bit clearer.

 

Again, Thank you and I will try to review all my previous topics and answer them if I can.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2013 by reyb

[Winchester]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU0CuPH7akM[/media]

[Ed Normile]

Simply put, to replensih the grace we receive from the reception of the Eucharist. If we were saints or inable to sin we would not tarnish our souls, or lose that grace, but unfortunately we do.

 

ed

[reyb]

I guess brushing my teeth once will keep them clean forever.  We eat everyday in feed our bodies to sustain our physical life.  We eat of Jesus' food to feed our souls and sustain our eternal life.

 

 

"If the Eucharist is Christ himself  then, what is the sense of doing it repeatedly considering you have the assurance of eternal life for ‘He is in you and you are in Him’ when you took it the first time?" 

 

We do it because we love Him and want to be more perfectly one with Him and each other and to receive all of the blessings and graces which He gives us.  Have you ever thought of becoming Catholic?  Obviously you have thought about these things very deeply. 

 

Blessings,

 

Golden Years

 

 

Simply put, to replensih the grace we receive from the reception of the Eucharist. If we were saints or inable to sin we would not tarnish our souls, or lose that grace, but unfortunately we do.

 

ed

 

Therefore, once is not really enough since you want for more. Are you quantifying that grace you received from your Eucharist? Why then, once is not enough?

 

This is not to insult anyone but to remind you again that ‘bread from heaven’ is too far different from ‘bread from oven’. You can eat your Eucharist every Sunday or every day. But at the end of the day, you will never rationalize how that piece of ‘bread’ can save you. Actually, It is your faith that gives you a momentary relief and not that Eucharist.

 

Eat this ‘bread from heaven’ - and not your Eucharist - and then you will see that once is enough for you to be saved’. 

[Golden Years]

"Why then, once is not enough?"

 

Once is never enough when you're with the One you love.  And He loves you too!  He loves us all and that is why He gave us the Eucharist, so He could be with us always.  (Matt. 28:20) 

[reyb]

Sternhauser said in post # 26 in ‘The presence of Christ in the Eucharist is a Lie’ the following:

 

Reyb, I've got some questions for you, now. Where in the Bible (the only source of authority) does it say, "All you have to do is accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior and you are going to heaven, no matter what you do?" Was Paul a liar when he said, in 1 Corinthians 9:27, "But I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps,when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway."? Or in Philippians 2:12, when he told them to "work out your salvation in fear and trembling

 

To Sternhauser,

 

If you think Apostle Paul is saying ‘salvation’ is his prize in 1 Cor 9:27. Then, you must explain Rom 9:1-4? 

 

My point is this. If it is true that Apostle Paul must continually work - otherwise he will not get his prize - just like in this case, he must preach the Gospel to others in order to win his prize of salvation at the end. Why then he is speaking another thing in Romans 9:1-4?

 

If you can hear him in Rom 9:1-4. He is practically saying, it is not possible for him to unchain himself from Christ’s power even if he wishes for the sake of his brothers. John 10:27-30 speaks the same thing. Apostle Paul belongs to Christ and no one can snatch him out in his hands, even Apostle Paul himself has no power to do it because, the all powerful God did it (and Obviously Apostle Paul is not powerful than God).

 

Thus, I said you must explain Rom 9:1-4 if you think ‘his prize’ in 1 Cor 9:27 means salvation.

 

Therefore, to make it shorter, Apostle Paul was already saved from God’s wrath.  So, why does he need to continually work for his salvation?

 

On my part, Apostle Paul’s prize in 1 Cor 9:27 is not salvation but, ‘the blessing of knowing what the Spirit  reveals while he is preaching the Gospel to others’, and that is his prize in preaching. Truth truly exposes lies and it is knowledge too. (I will explain it further if you want). He even said his ‘reward’ in preaching whether he done it voluntary or involuntary, and it is not salvation either (please see 1 Cor 9:18).

 

There is really a prize in teaching because teachers learn too while doing it.

 

Again, if you will insist that Apostle Paul’s prize in 1 Cor 9:27 is his salvation. Can you please explain John 10:27-30?

 

Now to your question where is it in the scripture saying ‘All you have to do is accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior and you are going to heaven, no matter what you do?"

 

If you are referring to a word for word statement then, there is none and besides, you are putting poison on your food in saying ‘...no matter what you do’ as if you are making them stupid persons after they saw the Lord of Glory.

 

But if I am the one who will read it then, it is correct. Actually, Salvation comes thru faith in Jesus Christ and not by works.

 

1 Cor 12:3 definitely tell us that only a man who has the guidance of the Holy Spirit  can say ‘Jesus is Lord’ and Eph 1:13-14 confirms that the Holy Spirit is the deposit guarranteeing inheritance. While John 10:27-30 speaks as if it is saying ‘no matter what you do, you belong to Christ’.

 

So, to make it short and with the above presentation, I can say ‘All you have to do is accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savoir and you are going to heaven, no matter what you do?"

 

Actually, it is written in Rom 10:9

 

‘That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved’.

 

But one thing is a must. You must confess that ‘Jesus is Lord’ to the real Jesus Christ and not to your historical Jesus Christ. Otherwise, you are one with imitators who honour Christ with their ‘lips’ while their hearts are too far from him because, they are looking to the other Jesus and not to Him.  In that sense, you have to work with all your everything in seeking the real Jesus Christ for your own salvation. 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2013 by reyb

[Mark of the Cross]

 

 

We do it because we love Him and want to be more perfectly one with Him and each other and to receive all of the blessings and graces which He gives us.

Blessings,

 

Golden Years

 

Exactly right. Eucharist is not just about getting ourselves into enternal life. Before you are married you love to have special time with the one you wish to spend life with. You go out together have a meal or a drink. And so it is with Jesus. We can be with him at other times, but the eucharist is where we get together with him and other people. The two commandments love of God and love of his people. Reys mistake is he is looking for logic where there is non. The eucharist is faith and friendship in Christ it cannot be examined clinically.

[Selah]

Don't mind me, I'm just here for the reyb posts :popcorn:

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I don't thirst for things outside of the truth especially sin ( except food and water of course) through our Lord and savior Christ Jesus, i need Jesus daily that i may not thirst for sin. The holy eucharist is one way to let Jesus into our hearts to quench that thirst for sin and i believe the most awesome way but than i also recieve him spiritually in prayer, meditation, holy scripture,charity and other holy writings.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Simply put, to replensih the grace we receive from the reception of the Eucharist. If we were saints or inable to sin we would not tarnish our souls, or lose that grace, but unfortunately we do.

 

ed

 

Are you so sure most saints don't sin to some degree or another, although i have heard some saint with grace removed even there venial sins before they passed on ? 

 

Also ReyB do you pray everyday? Or meditate everyday ?

Edited December 31, 2013 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye