Political Compass!

[crusader1234]

Haha Ash I agree, not to say that we are perfect here in Canada, we are about to overhaul our system thanks to that Romanov report or whatever which is costing an insane amount of money.

[quote]What incentive is there to work hard when you have enough money to get adequate food and a color tv?
[/quote]

And Burkefan, like I said, in the Canadian welfare model, there is no extra money for a colour TV. They barely barely get by.

As for it not working in the United States, why not? Are your people fundamentally greedy on both halves? One side would exploit and one side would not want to give tax dollars?

[L5]

Economic Left/Right: -4.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.46

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote]Crusader -- my boyfriend and his family (they're actually Polish) have a lot of fun reminding me that Canada, Norway, and Sweden are ranked to be much more livable than the U.S.[/quote]

HA! Who ranks that, the UN? Canada, Norway, and Sweden are in serious financial trouble soon and their morals are awful. If that's the price for being "livable" then I'd rather stay here, thank you very much.

[Ash Wednesday]

We are not discussing morals here. I'm not arguing morals -- there is no question that morally, the majority of these countries have terrible morals regarding abortion, gay marriage, etc.

I'm speaking solely on economic stability, health care, working conditions, et cetera. There are good and bad with both the united states, europe and canada. But what I disagree with is the notion that we as a country are so much more better off and superior. (And this could also go for morals as well.)

[BurkeFan]

Ash - Ranked by whom, if I may inquire?
Also, I'm not saying that we're all that better off. I'm just saying that Socialism won't work here.

Edited June 6, 2004 by BurkeFan

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote]We are not discussing morals here. I'm not arguing morals -- there is no question that morally, the majority of these countries have terrible morals regarding abortion, gay marriage, etc.

I'm speaking solely on economic stability, health care, working conditions, et cetera. There are good and bad with both the united states, europe and canada. But what I disagree with is the notion that we as a country are so much more better off and superior.[/quote]

But morals make up about half of this political scale.

As far as economics go, America is stronger for the long run. I have a friend from Canada who tells me that she made $600 a month in welfare that she didn't even need, but it took MONTHS to get a medical appointment. No system is perfect, but I see huge problems with such expansive and expensive welfare systems.

[Ash Wednesday]

UN and WHO (I know where this is all headed ) but I don't know of a lot of other organizations that are able to provide any comprehensive information otherwise that supports the contrary. Otherwise I'm all ears.

[Ash Wednesday]

Uh... I wasn't really talking about the whole political scale, I was talking mostly about economic policies and health care. Now you've all lost me.

Personally I agree most with what the pope has had to say about all this. Naturally he was criticizing Maxist communism, but I admire that he wasn't afraid to criticize rampant consumerism.

Edited June 6, 2004 by Ash Wednesday

[BurkeFan]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 6 2004, 02:10 PM'] And Burkefan, like I said, in the Canadian welfare model, there is no extra money for a colour TV. They barely barely get by.

As for it not working in the United States, why not? Are your people fundamentally greedy on both halves? One side would exploit and one side would not want to give tax dollars? [/quote]
No, I think that there is a culture of laziness and apathy here though. People stay on welfare for decades. Yes, there is some indignation that people's money is going to them (and, some would say, to feed their drug habits, but such is not universally true) and they're not trying to do anything for themselves. They are offered opportunity after opportunity, and they don't do anything. What's worse is the tact that they take with their kids. This, for example, is what I'm talking about: [url="http://www.freep.com/features/living/riley26_20040526.htm"]Free Press commentary[/url]
In Christ,
Dave

[BurkeFan]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Jun 6 2004, 02:43 PM'] Personally I agree most with what the pope has had to say about all this. Naturally he was criticizing Maxist communism, but I admire that he wasn't afraid to criticize rampant consumerism. [/quote]
And rampant consumerism, I think is rightly criticized.

[crusader1234]

First of all, the statistics on healthcare, etc. have nothing to do with political freedoms such as abortion or gay marriage. As for our morals, the United States has almost identical laws as far as morals go. Gay Marriage is legal in some places there, its legal in some places here. Abortion is legal there, its legal here. The ranks are determined based on so much more than just freedoms.

[quote]As far as economics go, America is stronger for the long run. [/quote]

I think that the biggest part missing here is SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT. In the long run, you arent going to have a lot to go on. You are already having power and water crisis, and your fossil fuel emissions are sickening. The fact that your president refused to sign the Kyoto accord made me want to vomit, total lack of regard for other nations and the future of his own nation.

[quote]
I have a friend from Canada who tells me that she made $600 a month in welfare that she didn't even need, but it took MONTHS to get a medical appointment. No system is perfect, but I see huge problems with such expansive and expensive welfare systems. [/quote]

I have to question this, considering in our local newspaper a writer went on self imposed welfare for a month and had to quit early because the conditions were just that bad.

[Ash Wednesday]

I think, (just making an observation/asking question here), I wonder if a lot of it is about trust? I've explained to my boyfriend the point of view here in the west why we don't pay a lot of taxes, I think a lot of it is Americans are also more wary of trusting the government or a larger system with their tax dollars. At least from talking to my dad (Republican) and reading stuff that leans more right. I don't know if it's a cultural thing, or what.

Just wondering what you guys think?

[Aloysius]

that makes sense, i wouldn't trust a government that won't protect the unborn and is tearing down anything that's true with my money.

unless it was a simple monarchy and there was no such thing as health concerns. haven't we just invented those anyway?

whatever

i hate politics



PAX

[crusader1234]

haha aloysius...

anyways ash i think that makes sense. i guess it depends on how you were raised, where you were raised, etc. i think that its hard for a lot of canaidans to imagine cutting welfare and healthcare, while its hard for americans to imagine adopting the two.

[Ash Wednesday]

You know, I don't understand monarchies. I think the English royals are kinda cool for some inexplicable reason. Probably because the history is particularly interesting.

But the rest of them aren't so interesting to me. (Especially the ones in the Scandinavias, and Spain) I know, it's supposedly about symbolism, nationality or whatever. But they don't have executive power that I know of, and I don't really understand what they actually [b]do.[/b]