Political Compass!

[Oik]

I have taken this test several times. Generally, I was close to Ghandi. I however have thought through some answers and it was different this time.

Economic Left/Right: -1.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.36

In the famous words of the man in Black, I walk the line

[BurkeFan]

I didn't actually copy out my results, but, both were fairly far positive... And I do agree that the test was loaded to the extreme. But I would, personally, be wary of calling JPII a liberal economist. So much of Catholic social thinking is (probably surprising to John Kerry) fairly conservative.
And, I'm really glad to see that there aren't any communist 'Catholics' on this board since such a thing can't exist. I think it was in Quadregesimo Anno that Pius XI wrote "No one at the same time can be a sincere Catholic and a true socialist."
In Christ,
Dave

[crusader1234]

[quote name='BurkeFan' date='Jun 4 2004, 09:58 PM']I didn't actually copy out my results, but, both were fairly far positive... And I do agree that the test was loaded to the extreme. But I would, personally, be wary of calling JPII a liberal economist. So much of Catholic social thinking is (probably surprising to John Kerry) fairly conservative.
And, I'm really glad to see that there aren't any communist 'Catholics' on this board since such a thing can't exist. I think it was in Quadregesimo Anno that Pius XI wrote "No one at the same time can be a sincere Catholic and a true socialist." 
In Christ,
Dave [/quote]
Well this raises loads of Red Flags for me.

First of all, Socialists arent about breaking laws or anything, theyre about helping out your neighbour. To be a socialist you dont have to be pro choice or pro gay marriage.

So much of Catholic social thinking is conservative?!?! This is news to me. Wasn't Jesus all aobut loving your neighbour and helping people out? Charity? Supporting people? Loving people? I dont remember him saying cut healthcare, public funding, and lower taxes for rich people. In fact, isnt the entire story of Zaccheus about how we should stop taxing poor people, and the rich people should give back to the community?

While at the moment, Conservatives are dealing well with the big issues of abortion and gay marriage - at least in Canada, the Conservative party is all about tax cuts and stopping the whole idea of helping out your neighbour.

Can't be a socialist and a Catholic at the same time? I think its the opposite. I dont get how a Pope could say this, and I'm glad this isnt Ex Cathedra or I'd probably go crazy.

[crusader1234]

bump for burkefan

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote]First of all, Socialists arent about breaking laws or anything, theyre about helping out your neighbour. To be a socialist you dont have to be pro choice or pro gay marriage.[/quote]

No, I think the concept behind socialism is using high taxes to support the poor and needy financially.

[quote]So much of Catholic social thinking is conservative?!?! This is news to me. Wasn't Jesus all aobut loving your neighbour and helping people out? Charity? Supporting people? Loving people? I dont remember him saying cut healthcare, public funding, and lower taxes for rich people. In fact, isnt the entire story of Zaccheus about how we should stop taxing poor people, and the rich people should give back to the community?[/quote]

Catholic social teaching is generally conservative. No gay marriage, no abortion, no contraception, etc. I believe the story of Zaccheus was about how Christ would forgive even the hated tax-collector. The tax-collector is still commonly despised and I think that the backbone of Catholic social teaching on financial matters for the poor is based in giving based on charity, not on government mandates. And what does it say for us when the only reason we help the poor is because we are forced to? I think Catholic social teaching on this matter is much more concerned with the poor being helped by charitable acts of society...by any means, but preferably by voluntary means.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Okay, so my brother couldn't write a summary, but he gladly recommended the book "Modern Times" by Historian and Journalist Paul Johnson (who also wrote a very good history of Christianity, by the way, which is called "A History of Christianity").

[BurkeFan]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 4 2004, 10:25 PM'] Well this raises loads of Red Flags for me.

First of all, Socialists arent about breaking laws or anything, theyre about helping out your neighbour. To be a socialist you dont have to be pro choice or pro gay marriage.

So much of Catholic social thinking is conservative?!?! This is news to me. Wasn't Jesus all aobut loving your neighbour and helping people out? Charity? Supporting people? Loving people? I dont remember him saying cut healthcare, public funding, and lower taxes for rich people. In fact, isnt the entire story of Zaccheus about how we should stop taxing poor people, and the rich people should give back to the community?

While at the moment, Conservatives are dealing well with the big issues of abortion and gay marriage - at least in Canada, the Conservative party is all about tax cuts and stopping the whole idea of helping out your neighbour.

Can't be a socialist and a Catholic at the same time? I think its the opposite. I dont get how a Pope could say this, and I'm glad this isnt Ex Cathedra or I'd probably go crazy. [/quote]
Breaking laws isn't the issue.
Conservatives [b][u][i]AREN'T[/u][/i][/b] about hating your neighbor, going against charity, leaving people in the dust... We, at least I, feel that when it's left to the government to handle it, terrible things happen. It's not the role of the state, at all.
The entire social order predicated by socialism (at least classical socialism, I can't really speak for the flavors of socialism running about in Canada and Europe) is completely counter to the social order proposed by the Church. It is not, I think, as simple as just "helping out your neighbor," because if it was, why is it a political ideology?
Catholic Social Thought is neither liberal nor conservative really, it is neither really communistic nor is it fully capitalistic. It is a third way. But, yes, it tends to be more conservative because it puts severe limits on the role of the state, mostly because it's order of precedence - that is, the human comes before the state and takes precedence over the state.
A note on socialism and communism: They have been condemned by the Church. Look at the Syllabus of Errors, Rerum Novarum, and Quadregesimo Anno. The part that I quoted was one of the moderate things said about Socialists and Communists. But even if the ideologies have been altered or tempered, they are still at their very core flawed.
In Christ,
Dave

p.s. When did the Conservatives introduce the legislation, or even talk about it, regarding "Limiting the occurance of neighborly assistance"? If you're tying that in with tax cuts, then it doesn't follow, since my guess would be is that Conservatives would rather help their neighbors directly than by way of government proxy.

[BurkeFan]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Jun 4 2004, 11:32 PM'] Okay, so my brother couldn't write a summary, but he gladly recommended the book "Modern Times" by Historian and Journalist Paul Johnson (who also wrote a very good history of Christianity, by the way, which is called "A History of Christianity"). [/quote]
A good history of the Church that I've read is [i]Triumph: The Power and the Glory of the Catholic Church[/i] by William H Crocker III. That book rocks.

[Cure of Ars]

Economic Left/Right: 1.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.54




I must be a freak. I’m the only person in the bottom right quadrant.

Edited June 5, 2004 by Cure of Ars

[Aloysius]

yay for burkefan.

[Mickey's_Girl]

[quote name='Cure of Ars' date='Jun 5 2004, 12:34 AM']Economic Left/Right: 1.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.54




I must be a freak.  I’m the only person in the bottom right quadrant.[/quote]
Not a freak! Variety is good! :wub:

Yo, Sojourner: I know I said "leftie" but I can never bring myself to use the word "liberal" about myself. I'm not dissing those here who proudly wear the label.

I...just...can't...do...it!!!! AAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

:freak: :freak:

:dead:



(LOL!)

MG

[cmotherofpirl]

-3.25 and -.26

[Norseman82]

Economic Left/Right: -3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.90

Somewhat close to the Pope...

But I do agree, a lot of these questions were not worded properly, at least for issues germaine to the US today. Either they were loaded, or too vague, or there were no answers that really reflected what I truly felt, and it would not let me leave an answer blank. And a lot of the issues that are defining for the US, such as tax cuts versus deficit reduction and spend on defense versus social programs, were not present.

[voiciblanche]

I thought I was pretty right-wing myself, but according to this test and Jacob, I'm a leftie...hmm...

[Iacobus]

Liberal Catholic teachings

Rights and Resposniblites-All persons have the fundamental right to life and itams like food shelter clothing jobs health care and education. With the goverement under Bush cutting Fedreal Fincial aid and hurting schools with NCLB (go ask a local elementry teacher there views, I live with them). However, if the goverement is involeved here it is at the "lowest level possible, as long as they can be performed adequately." Socialist health care is better than the system we have in the states for granting basic health care to ALL people.

Economic Justice-- All people have the basic right to form and join and support unions. NO ONE is allowed to amass great wealth when others lack the basic necessities of life.

The MDC are called and bound to relive the debts of 3rd world nations.

All of these are more fully found in the more liberal parties than the more converative. When was the last time Bush called for 3rd World Debt to be removed? Stronger unions? For the rich to give large parts of the their money so that others may barly live? Free or affordable health care for all members of socitey? Granted the dems don't care for all but they have called for stronger unions, less 3rd World Debt, lower health costs etc.

The citiations I have on this paper I took those socail teachings are
~Revom Novarum (Pope Leo XIII 1891)
~Gaudium et Spes
~Evanglium Vitae (JP2 1995)
~Economic Justice for all (USCCB 1986)

Last I looked those are all soruces held in high regrad and considered to be teachers. Unless you don't listen to hte Vatican and the Pope and your bishops.