Bbc Series: The Monastery

[Antigonos]

.....to The Convent on youtube! (pardon my cell phone,lol) I also got a totally different sense from watching it & at times I got so uncomfortable with what some of the women were doing I thought I'd rather be over in the monastery with the guys! :hehe:

Thanks AL for posting the list of participants above ;) It helps jog my memory....

 

I saw both series, and what interested me was the difference in the men's, and the women's approach and views.  It did seem to me that the group of women were more "problematic" in that they did not seem to have the same urge to use the experience as a means of discovering more self-knowledge; at times they seemed to be almost hostile to the entire concept of monastic life -- I remember one of the sisters, during a meeting of the sisters and their superior, complaining that some of the visiting women seemed to almost try to be deliberately rude, by acts such as coming consistently late to chapel, which the sister felt was disrespectful.  It made one wonder why these women had applied to be chosen to be in the group coming to the convent at all.

 

All the applicants had to have been baptised as Christians, even if not practicing -- or believing -- in any way.  Otherwise, I might have tried to apply; I've often wondered about experiencing monastic life, [a fantasy of mine] although not believing that Jesus is God would seem an impossible obstacle.  But then, I am more interested in the spiritual aspect than in any particular religion as such.  I could attend chapel since most of the prayers derive from the Psalms, anyway -- I just would not participate in communion, for example -- and just stay silent when the rubric "all this we ask in Jesus' name", etc. was said.

[brandelynmarie]

You rock, Antigonos :)

[ChristinaTherese]

I just watched The Monastery. Good stuff. It reminded me of the book But I Have Called You Friends by Mother Francis. It talks about community life as well. And, since I can't bring myself to mention the book without quoting it, here's a passage:

 

Dear sisters, whenever we have a particular difficulty in understanding our sisters, or, to say it honestly, a particular difficulty in liking certain persons, let us begin at that point: that this is my basic problem or trouble--that this particular person is so particularly not-I. Other sisters, on occasion, may be noticeably not-I--a deficit in them, of course!--but this sister seems to be on almost every occasion not-I. So we decide that we have a problem, we think that we don't like this person and get distressed about it and mull it over in our hearts, worry that we are uncharitable, and then enter into all kinds of detailed analyses, which make the situation worse. If only we would keep it at its basic level: I don't understand this sister; I particularly do not understand this particular sister. Now, what am I going to do about it?

 

First, I am going to admit goodhumoredly that she is more not-I than some other people are not-I, and that is my problem. Secondly, I decide that I am definitely not going to take this sister by the hand and say, "Let's sit down and talk this over", when what I really mean is, "Now, you sit down and explain to me why you are the way you are." This is what I meant when I talked about aggressive understanding. The friends of Job became increasingly aggressive until they were downright ugly and vitriolic. 

 

It is not good, dear sisters, to analyze other people. The way to understand others is to be open to them, and this requires a great deal of humility. Analysis is easy for the proud, understanding is not. And humility in this has to begin with the basic premise that we have been talking about: that this sister or those sisters who may seem on more occasions to understand me best are still not-I; and it is never going to fail that sometimes even the most understanding sister will not understand me. This discovery may rock me a bit if I am not building on the basic premise that no one else but me is I, and no one but God understands me perfectly. How else shall we account for the fact that some of the the classic friendships in history and poetry and the very Scriptures have not been without their misunderstandings? It is not God's plan that we should be perfectly understood by another human being. In fact, it could not be so. For that would entail being the other person or being the creator of the other person. And none of us can be God. (Taken from the end of chapter 5, passage marked by Emma Berry before she gave me the book.)

 

I think that's the heart of what Anthony and Gary learned through their conflict.

 

By the way, this is off topic, but thinking of Mother Francis and Roswell and Emma, I'm thinking that she's likely to have her investiture soon. I'll write around Christmas and might let you know of any news on that front. (I mailed a letter to her community today, but that was just to ask for the inclusion of my family in their Christmas novena. I hope I wasn't too late.)

[AnneLine]

That's a perfect quote to go with this discussion, ChristinaTherese!!!   And SO apt when thinking of the issues between Anthoney and Gary...

 

BrandelynMarie, did you have 'Tony' and 'Peter' switched?  When you mentioned the guy who changed so much I think maybe you meant Tony -- he was the blonde  one.... Peter is the older guy with the beard.

 

Here's a picture of the men... might help all of us in our discussion!

(From left) Anthoney, Tony, Nick, Gary and Peter
lived alongside the monks at Worth Abbey 

 

from http://www.worthabbey.net/bbc/whatis.html

 

Antigonos, I think that is really interesting that the participants had to be baptized if not practicing Christians.  Because something tells me you would have been a WONDERFUL addition to the mix.  I haven't been able to watch the Convent (of the poor clares in Arundel) but I was able to watch the US one (of the Iowa Trappistines), and they had one woman who was an admitted out-and-out-atheist and a couple of ladies who were, well, disrespectful isn't the half of it.   I am not sure what they thought they were doing with selecting that bunch, but the Nuns certainly had their hands full.....

 

Having said that, there are some moments in that video that make it worth watching; unfortunately it is NOT on Youtube, but you can order it directly from the Our Lady of the Mississippi Abbey.

 

Has anyone other than Beatitude and I read the Finding Sanctuary Book?   I liked how it is organized around the structure of building an 'space' for seeking God... encouraging developing various elements that will help us in our journey toward God:  silence, contemplation, obedience, humility, community, spirituality, and hope -- and having us compare them to erecting a sacred space, complete with basement, floor, walls, windows, roof, and then finally furnishing it.   He used quotes from the Rule of St. Albert and other writers... and basically developed a very accessible way of helping to get people to create a sanctuary for the spirit.

 

I really liked it... I suspect many of you would as well... and it is just good solid spirituality.  THIS one would be helpful for both discerners and those who want to deepen their prayer lives as lay persons....

 

[maximillion]

I watched both progs when they were on here in the Uk - in fact fascinated by both and somewhat horrified and embarrassed by the women at times.

They did seem to have a very take it or leave it superficial attitude to the whole experience, but then I think that is how some women 'process' experiences, at least initially.

 

What I would give for a follow up to both progs and see what all the participants thought/are doing now.

 

One of the things that struck me and that a few of the men mentioned, was the impact a few hours of silence per day had on them. Initially they felt wrong footed and alien but most came to the conclusion it was useful and a couple even managed to get to the root of understanding it's deeper meanings. Sorry I can't now recall which of the men said this.

 

There was at least one of the women who 'got' the silence too.

 

What do others think of silence as a 'tool' of deepening our spiritual life, and has anyone experienced it for longer than a few hours either in the convent/monastery or out?

Does anyone have deliberate quiet days away from technology and with less talking, more solitude?

If so, how do you find this/what are your insights?

 

For my own part I think I am the only person I know who is not tied to my phone or emails. In fact I constantly leave my phone lying about and don't pick up missed calls or messages sometimes for days.

I do have at least a half a day, though I prefer a whole day a week, when I withdraw from social contact, often I go out into nature - where I find the face of God very easily. I set this time aside for prayer but also for much of it, for silence.

I find silence in His company very refreshing and it gentles my spirit, like being with an old and well known friend, companionably together with no real need to speak. I often have my most profound intimations of His Presence at these times, more so even than at Mass. I also enter quite spontaneously and easily into reciting the praise psalms or into praise when surrounded by and deep in His handiwork in nature.

 

I will raise mine eyes to the hills, from whence cometh my strength. My strength is in the Name of the Lord, who made heaven and earth.

 

Yes, the deep hush that fell over the monastery in the early afternoons, and that I loved so much, engaged in lectio or private prayer, I still miss, and find it almost impossible to find outside of retreats and being actually in a convent.

[Antigonos]

You rock, Antigonos :)

 

Well, you see, there are several aspects in particular that interest me.  One, of course, is that Jews do not have the option of retiring "from the world" in order to improve their spiritual lives.  The entire framework of Jewish Law ["halacha", which literally means "the way of walking"] is to make one's entire existence in THIS world a spiritual experience, in much the same way that a Christian religious follows a Holy Rule as an aid to spirituality.  It would interest me to see it "from the other side", as it were.

 

The other would be rather obviously to experience the silence and see whether it would be conducive to what we call "heshbon nefesh".  This is a Hebrew term that literally means "accounting of the soul", or taking stock of oneself.  I would love a period without distraction; I'd bring with me several volumes of Talmud, and some other classic Jewish works on spirituality, and do my own form of "lectio divina" :-)

[krissylou]

Well, you see, there are several aspects in particular that interest me.  One, of course, is that Jews do not have the option of retiring "from the world" in order to improve their spiritual lives.  The entire framework of Jewish Law ["halacha", which literally means "the way of walking"] is to make one's entire existence in THIS world a spiritual experience, in much the same way that a Christian religious follows a Holy Rule as an aid to spirituality.  It would interest me to see it "from the other side", as it were.

 

The other would be rather obviously to experience the silence and see whether it would be conducive to what we call "heshbon nefesh".  This is a Hebrew term that literally means "accounting of the soul", or taking stock of oneself.  I would love a period without distraction; I'd bring with me several volumes of Talmud, and some other classic Jewish works on spirituality, and do my own form of "lectio divina" :-)

 

I could imagine a Trappist (OCSO) monastery being very conducive to this.  Every house is different of course but as a general rule Trappists tend to be interested in interfaith work.

 

Staying within the cloister probably wouldn't be possible, but many (most?  nearly all?) will have a guest house and it could be quite possible to spend some time in the guest house, go to the chapel for prayers (chant along with the Psalms, go silent for the Salve Regina, I'm guessing.  :) ) and follow their schedule of life for a while.

 

Just brainstorming.

[Antigonos]

Well, it is at best highly theoretical, since I have a husband, three adult children, and for two of them, their spouses, as well as one and a half grandchildren to take care of <g>, not to mention a garden, and Israel is rather far away from the sort of "advanced" convents and/or monasteries who would offer the kind of experience seen on the BBC programs.

 

Nunsense did note that the Benedictine monastery in [IIRC] Washington state where she did a live-in had retreat cabins and at least one Jewish lady came there periodically.  But I don't believe she participated in the life of the community in the way the visitors to "The Monastery" and "The Convent" did.

 

Ah well, a nice fantasy...

[brandelynmarie]

That's a perfect quote to go with this discussion, ChristinaTherese!!!   And SO apt when thinking of the issues between Anthoney and Gary...

 

BrandelynMarie, did you have 'Tony' and 'Peter' switched?  When you mentioned the guy who changed so much I think maybe you meant Tony -- he was the blonde  one.... Peter is the older guy with the beard.

 

Here's a picture of the men... might help all of us in our discussion!

(From left) Anthoney, Tony, Nick, Gary and Peter
lived alongside the monks at Worth Abbey 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Omgoodness! I DID mix them up! My apologies :blush:

Edited December 7, 2013 by brandelynmarie

[brandelynmarie]

Well, it is at best highly theoretical, since I have a husband, three adult children, and for two of them, their spouses, as well as one and a half grandchildren to take care of <g>, not to mention a garden, and Israel is rather far away from the sort of "advanced" convents and/or monasteries who would offer the kind of experience seen on the BBC programs.

 

Nunsense did note that the Benedictine monastery in [IIRC] Washington state where she did a live-in had retreat cabins and at least one Jewish lady came there periodically.  But I don't believe she participated in the life of the community in the way the visitors to "The Monastery" and "The Convent" did.

 

Ah well, a nice fantasy...

 

I think any Benedictine monastery worth its salt would let you make a private retreat. :) You could attend the Offices & only help chant the Psalms...the one I have visited here in the US is very welcoming & accommodating of a person's personal beliefs. I think you would love it :)

[NatalieisCatholic]

Thank you for sharing the series! I watched it all today and I thought it was pretty great. It was really moving to see their transformations! Now if only everyone could have the chance to visit a monastery!  :proud:

[Starets]

Well, it is at best highly theoretical, since I have a husband, three adult children, and for two of them, their spouses, as well as one and a half grandchildren to take care of <g>, not to mention a garden, and Israel is rather far away from the sort of "advanced" convents and/or monasteries who would offer the kind of experience seen on the BBC programs.

 

Nunsense did note that the Benedictine monastery in [IIRC] Washington state where she did a live-in had retreat cabins and at least one Jewish lady came there periodically.  But I don't believe she participated in the life of the community in the way the visitors to "The Monastery" and "The Convent" did.

 

Ah well, a nice fantasy...

 

There is the Olivetan Benedictine monastery of Abu Ghosh in the twon of the same name:
http://www.abbaye-abugosh.info/  (Website in French)

Since I do not read French I have no idea if they have a guesthouse of any sort, but a guesthouse is standard with Benedictine monasteries.
 

[EmilyAnn]

I've just finished watching the whole series. It's fascinating how for a group of mostly non-believers monastic life still had such a deep and profound impact on their life. Anyone who thinks monastic life is no longer relevant should watch this! I thought it showed the value of monastic life very well and showed the monks as well in a very human and relatable way. 

 

I found it interesting that a Northern Irish Protestant chose to spend time in a Roman Catholic monastery...especially one who had been in The Troubles, so his journey was fascinating to watch. I sympathised greatly with Tony's struggle early on of "if you're there God speak to me! Do something! Prove it!", and later of how to take what he had learnt back to his life. The longing for God was there in his heart I think more deeply than it was for the others, and his moment of 'conversion' with Brother Francis was very touching. Nick's struggle with vocation and being called to the priesthood was also interesting to see, the monastery experience seemed to really bring those feelings out for him. The bickering that went on was very interesting to watch, it is very true that in the silence of monastic life you can see parts of yourself that you don't necessarily want to take a look at. 

 

I've heard of Parkminster before but never really paid attention to just how silent and alone their life is. That is definitely a very unique and very difficult call. As much as I loved the Great Silence, that much silence and aloneness would be too much for me. 

 

But watching the series has really made me reflect and think about my own monastic experience...

[AnneLine]

EmilyAnn!  I'm glad you watched the videos and enjoyed them!!!

 

 

I've just finished watching the whole series. It's fascinating how for a group of mostly non-believers monastic life still had such a deep and profound impact on their life. Anyone who thinks monastic life is no longer relevant should watch this! I thought it showed the value of monastic life very well and showed the monks as well in a very human and relatable way. 

 

I COMPLETELY agree, EmilyAnn.  In fact, I had my Secular Novices and Temp Professeds watch the videos AND we used the Finding Sanctuary book as a book in our formation class... because I wanted them to think about what it meant for them AS lay people to be utilizing insights from monastic life in their OWN lives... and also for ideas on how to share our charism with friends, families, coworkers, etc.   It's not about preaching or shoving stuff down people... it's about luring them the way God lures us.... At least in my opinion....

 

I found it interesting that a Northern Irish Protestant chose to spend time in a Roman Catholic monastery...especially one who had been in The Troubles, so his journey was fascinating to watch.

 

YES!!!! I thought I was the only one who reacted that way --- told me a lot about Gary that he was open to setting foot in a Catholic monastery, with his Protestant Militia AND heavy-duty Protestant background in general.  Generally there is NOT much love lost between the Protestants and Catholics in that part of the world... but what a great example of ecumenism....    ESPECIALLY as he felt he had been unjustly imprisoned for allegedly bombing a Catholic home.  Must have taken a great openness to the Spirit....

 

 

I sympathised greatly with Tony's struggle early on of "if you're there God speak to me! Do something! Prove it!", and later of how to take what he had learnt back to his life. The longing for God was there in his heart I think more deeply than it was for the others, and his moment of 'conversion' with Brother Francis was very touching.

 

Yes.  AND... I think that kind of a fervent, no-holds-barred DEMAND to God is very interesting to God.... and God responded.   Yup.

 

 

Nick's struggle with vocation and being called to the priesthood was also interesting to see, the monastery experience seemed to really bring those feelings out for him.

 

 

I have known Seculars who struggled with their vocations in exactly the same way..... PLEASE GOD, give this to someone else.   But, sometimes God will NOT be put off... and I think Fr. Christopher and the whole monastic experience would NOT allow him to run away... Kind of like The Hound of Heaven.....

 

http://www.ewtn.com/library/HUMANITY/HNDHVN.HTM

 

Actually, several of the men fit the description of the soul chased by the Heavenly Hound....

 

The bickering that went on was very interesting to watch, it is very true that in the silence of monastic life you can see parts of yourself that you don't necessarily want to take a look at. 

 

Again, yup, yup, yup... and I have seen it happen in a convent as well.   And yes, it is more about what is going on inside oneself than the simple matter being discussed.... yup.

 

I've heard of Parkminster before but never really paid attention to just how silent and alone their life is. That is definitely a very unique and very difficult call. As much as I loved the Great Silence, that much silence and aloneness would be too much for me. 

 

Me too... I suspect for most of us.  One really needs to have the vocation... but then, that is true of ANY vocation, isn't it?

 

But watching the series has really made me reflect and think about my own monastic experience...

 

I would hope that would be true of all of us.  I know I spent 6 months as a postulant... and that time still stands out in my memory as one of the pivotal experiences in my spiritual and personal life...  And NONE of it is lost... God is the great recycler....

 

[AnneLine]

There is the Olivetan Benedictine monastery of Abu Ghosh in the twon of the same name:
http://www.abbaye-abugosh.info/  (Website in French)

Since I do not read French I have no idea if they have a guesthouse of any sort, but a guesthouse is standard with Benedictine monasteries.
 

 

I don't read much French, either, Staretz, but I know monasteries and monastic websites!   I used the really horrible Google Translate option to find this page -- and if my ability to read mangled, Googleized French is correct, they are ABSOLUTELY open to discerners who are not Catholic - this is the page is about this -  'staying' at the monastery.

 

http://www.abbaye-abugosh.info/-Sejour-au-monastere-

 

Sounds like they are VERY open to what you seek, Antigonos.... and probably could do so for a few days or weeks if that is what would interest you.  See how you and your familiy would feel.   Would be fascinating to hear from you if you do this!

Edited December 11, 2013 by AnneLine