Santa Claus

[blazeingstar]

Methinks blazingstar is being intentionally extra cantankerous. 

 

The biggest objection I know to telling your kids that Santa isn't real is then having them go to school and announce to their class that Santa isn't real, and make a bunch of kids cry. Honestly, people who decide to not do Santa in a way that is based on the idea "Santa is a lie" (instead of something like "We want to make the the focus is on Jesus, not consumerism") need to make sure their kids aren't little snits to everyone else's kids. 

 

If your kids stop believing in Jesus because they find out you "lied" about Santa, you're not doing Jesus or Santa right. 

 

I once read an article by a Catholic mom who said that they do Santa in their house, but when their kids get old enough to ask them if Santa is real they tell them the truth. Something along the lines of how Santa is a story we use to teach little children about generosity and thankfulness, how there was a real person called St. Nicholas who was a bishop and very generously gave gifts to people who were in need, and how now you're clearly a big kid and don't need the story of Santa anymore to understand these things, and instead can help Mommy and Daddy teach these things to your younger siblings. And also talk about the Wise Men giving Jesus gifts on Epiphany. I'm not a parent, so a bunch of you will probably discount everything I'm saying, but if I ever get to be one, this is the type of approach I'd like to use. 

Getting really really into Santa, using "Santa won't come this year" as a threat for bad behavior, making out huge Christmas lists, etc are probably things that take away from Christmas being Jesus' birthday. It shouldn't ever be about having tons of faith in Santa. You focus on Jesus's birthday, and Santa is something extra to it. 

 

Homeschooling

 

Problem solved.

 

Plus, you teach your children not to be rude.

 

A lie is a lie no matter how cute you dress it up or later explain it away.
 

[Basilisa Marie]

Homeschooling

 

Problem solved.

 

Plus, you teach your children not to be rude.

 

A lie is a lie no matter how cute you dress it up or later explain it away.
 

 

Great, good for you.  I've had a lot of experience growing up in the same church as a bunch of holier-than-thou kids, and it's annoying as heck. So that's where I'm coming from. 

[xTrishaxLynnx]

[Lilllabettt]

Maybe it is a culural thing, blazing.

I don't know what your socio-economic status is. You did say you were one of the poorer kids in class.

I consider myself middle class - well not technically but my parents had many habits of mind of middle class people and so that is what seems "normal" to me. But its not necessarily so. Parents engaging children in pretend play is a rather middle class activity. Middle class parents do not see pretend play as silly, they are down on their hands and knees trying to get their kids to pretend to be neurosurgeons. With all that engagement middle class kids have earlier development of theory of mind and larger vocabularies at school entry, which produces an achievement gap, which produces income differences, a process which voila replicates iteslf when they have kids.

 

Working class families are less likely to have child-centeric homes and lifesyles; they are more likely to be adult-centered. Parents who are geared up in survival mode do not have the energy or interest to play pretend.

 

Question: would you help your children "pretend" Mass? Or is that "beneath" you?

 

 

[xTrishaxLynnx]

That was just a joke, blazing. I'm sorry if it didn't come across that way. I sometimes forget that attempts at humor don't always translate via the interwebs.

 

I don't even totally disagree with you, by the way; I just think there are other ways of going about it without sheltering children completely from potentially fun and educational things. For example, explaining to one's children the true story and origin of Saint Nicholas/Santa Claus, while also (when they are old enough to understand) explaining how a lot of people only view the whole season as a commercialized thing involving a fake, magical, rotund man called Santa, whom they have taken very far from the original.

[arfink]

This thread is more than a little ridiculous. I approve.

 

Therefore, please accept my offering of this Maru in a box.

 

 

 

[Archaeology cat]

Happy St Nicholas Day! My kids awoke this morning to find treats and toys in their stockings. They couldn't wait to see what he'd bring them. We talk about St Nicholas and how Santa is just what some call him, whether they acknowledge that fact or not. St Nicholas puts small trinkets in their stockings again on Christmas, then the presents from everyone are spread out over the 12 days of Christmas (if there aren't enough presents for that, we do fun activities, like baking cookies). Maybe I'll have the kids leave cookies and whiskey for St Nicholas. ;)

I don't remember my parents playing pretend with me, and my mom has said she never liked doing so. But we love playing pretend with the kids. Right now we've evidently started chapter 3 of the dinosaur game. Sometimes they ask me to be Smaug. We have a lot of fun, and I wouldn't trade those times for anything. Ok, back to playing with my kids.

[blazeingstar]

Great, good for you.  I've had a lot of experience growing up in the same church as a bunch of holier-than-thou kids, and it's annoying as heck. So that's where I'm coming from. 

 

Kids at my church were richer-than-thou  (mercedes for confirmation gifts) I don't think holier ever entered into their minds.

 

 

Maybe it is a culural thing, blazing.

I don't know what your socio-economic status is. You did say you were one of the poorer kids in class.

I consider myself middle class - well not technically but my parents had many habits of mind of middle class people and so that is what seems "normal" to me. But its not necessarily so. Parents engaging children in pretend play is a rather middle class activity. Middle class parents do not see pretend play as silly, they are down on their hands and knees trying to get their kids to pretend to be neurosurgeons. With all that engagement middle class kids have earlier development of theory of mind and larger vocabularies at school entry, which produces an achievement gap, which produces income differences, a process which voila replicates iteslf when they have kids.

 

Working class families are less likely to have child-centeric homes and lifesyles; they are more likely to be adult-centered. Parents who are geared up in survival mode do not have the energy or interest to play pretend.

 

Question: would you help your children "pretend" Mass? Or is that "beneath" you?

 

Absolutely not on helping them pretend Mass.  Absoultely yes, it is benieth me.

They will learn how to cook and clean, to sew and to build.  They will get their vocabulary that way.  The only pretending I ever did with the 2 year old I nannied was pretending she was actually sweeping the floor with her little broom.  Of course she wasn't really sweeping, but it did train her to eventually use the broom.  There is no reason to play pretend when life is full of work.  They can play pretend to be out of my way, but I find children often love learning real skills and are eager to give up plastic tea cups to learn how to cook or to knit or to do something of actual value...even at 3 or 4

 

Happy St Nicholas Day! My kids awoke this morning to find treats and toys in their stockings. They couldn't wait to see what he'd bring them. We talk about St Nicholas and how Santa is just what some call him, whether they acknowledge that fact or not. St Nicholas puts small trinkets in their stockings again on Christmas, then the presents from everyone are spread out over the 12 days of Christmas (if there aren't enough presents for that, we do fun activities, like baking cookies). Maybe I'll have the kids leave cookies and whiskey for St Nicholas. ;)

I don't remember my parents playing pretend with me, and my mom has said she never liked doing so. But we love playing pretend with the kids. Right now we've evidently started chapter 3 of the dinosaur game. Sometimes they ask me to be Smaug. We have a lot of fun, and I wouldn't trade those times for anything. Ok, back to playing with my kids.

 

Your life, not mine.  Your kids.  Not mine.

[havok579257]

I totally agree.

 

That's what I did with my children. I didn't tell them any lies about Santa, but we enjoyed pretending.

 

That was long before I became a Catholic and now that I am one, I cannot comprehend how Catholics can go along with the Santa-is-real routine.

 

If a child found out his parents were lying about Santa, how would he know they weren't also lying about Jesus?  

 

We shouldn't be asking children to have faith in something that doesn't exist.

 

 

 

well there are bigger problems in that household that Santa is on par with Jesus and both are considered equals.
 

[havok579257]

Why do you keep insisting that I am somehow bad, legalistic and evil becuase I will not lie to children or play make believe WITH them?

 

My friends have several children, all of whom nearly worship at my feet and believe everything I say becuase I am a trustworthy individual.  They are 2years to 12 years old.  One saw me the other day adn called it "the best day of her life".  I have taken six of them to a museaum for 8 hours by myself with no other adults helping me.  A credit to their parents, they were well behaved.  They went home begging for another day for Miss Blaze to take them out again.  Hardly the grinch.

 

One of the children carries a perpetual story that she is a horse.  I let her play horse but I am not her liontamer (not sure how they correlate but in her mind they do).  She can pretend my dog is her sister, but I am not "in" on it.  If she tells me that my car is a horse trailer then I nod and say thats nice.  But I do not pretend to drive a horse trailer.

 

Just becuase I won't play with them, nor engaged in pretend dosn't make me a bad person or somehow deficient.  If my friends and their children hated me or disliked being around me I doubt they would call and ask for my help, invite me to family meals, sit for their children overnight or give me hugs. 

 

Sorry, your theory dosn't hold water.

 

 

when someone has to tell us how much everyone likes them and how not upset about the past they are, its usually not the truth.

 

also just an fyi, you are going along with that childs lie.  when they tell your car is a horse trailer and you don't say anything you are lying.  your are leading them to believe a lie.  if it was really about lying, you would not go along with this charade, you would correct it.  which makes me think this has nothing to do with lying and is all about some repressed anger you have about your childhood and Christmas.

[blazeingstar]

when someone has to tell us how much everyone likes them and how not upset about the past they are, its usually not the truth.

 

also just an fyi, you are going along with that childs lie.  when they tell your car is a horse trailer and you don't say anything you are lying.  your are leading them to believe a lie.  if it was really about lying, you would not go along with this charade, you would correct it.  which makes me think this has nothing to do with lying and is all about some repressed anger you have about your childhood and Christmas.

 

Whatever havok.  I'm taking care of one of the kids tonight and will be provinding a 2+ hour ride for another on Sunday.

 

I never have said child's imagiations should be squelshed....only that I will not be lying in any shape or form to my children, nor do I lie to my friends children.  Telling them that it is nice they are playing a game to keep them quiet is just the same as telling them their artwork is pretty.  Of course it's not...but for a child, saying that it is a "good job" is fine.  Its probably a good job for them...but that dosn't make it pretty.

[havok579257]

Kids at my church were richer-than-thou  (mercedes for confirmation gifts) I don't think holier ever entered into their minds.

 

 

 

Absolutely not on helping them pretend Mass.  Absoultely yes, it is benieth me.

They will learn how to cook and clean, to sew and to build.  They will get their vocabulary that way.  The only pretending I ever did with the 2 year old I nannied was pretending she was actually sweeping the floor with her little broom.  Of course she wasn't really sweeping, but it did train her to eventually use the broom.  There is no reason to play pretend when life is full of work.  They can play pretend to be out of my way, but I find children often love learning real skills and are eager to give up plastic tea cups to learn how to cook or to knit or to do something of actual value...even at 3 or 4

 

 

Your life, not mine.  Your kids.  Not mine.

 

so your ok with lying in some instances, gotcha.  cause a children pretending to sweep but is actually not sweeping is pretending.  to go along with it, is a lie.  so it seems your ok with some lying.

 

life is full of work for infants and toddlers?

[havok579257]

Whatever havok.  I'm taking care of one of the kids tonight and will be provinding a 2+ hour ride for another on Sunday.

 

I never have said child's imagiations should be squelshed....only that I will not be lying in any shape or form to my children, nor do I lie to my friends children.  Telling them that it is nice they are playing a game to keep them quiet is just the same as telling them their artwork is pretty.  Of course it's not...but for a child, saying that it is a "good job" is fine.  Its probably a good job for them...but that dosn't make it pretty.

 

 

man, I hope you change before your have children.  I feel bad for any child who asks their parent if their drawing looks pretty and their parent refuses to tell them it looks pretty. 

[blazeingstar]

so your ok with lying in some instances, gotcha.  cause a children pretending to sweep but is actually not sweeping is pretending.  to go along with it, is a lie.  so it seems your ok with some lying.

 

life is full of work for infants and toddlers?

 

Infants don't have an imagination.  Toddlers may have some, but pre-verbal they barely grasp concepts. And I've found that preschoolers do better when they are being trained for work...either doing chores, cooking, cleaning, laundry, or building with constructive toys.  Parent/adult involvement of course.

 

I know a 7yo who can make bread from scratch.  I admire that family and think that their way is far better than those of families who still wash their 27yo's laundry.

 

No, the children know they are playing pretend, that I think their pretend is a nice game but will not participate.  I reinforce that it is pretend rather than encouraging and prepetuating any falsehoods.

[blazeingstar]

man, I hope you change before your have children.  I feel bad for any child who asks their parent if their drawing looks pretty and their parent refuses to tell them it looks pretty. 

 

 

I will say "good job" but so far that has worked for all the children I've ever know either on a personal or professional setting.  If the child asks if it's pretty I will redirect with the truth.  If they get nasty and persist I ask them what they think.  If they persist at that I tell them I'm not an art teacher.