Santa Claus

[KnightofChrist]

spoken like a true liar (and you did lie to me claiming you were a seceret mod so there's no denying that).

Are lies of omission in fact lies?

[CrossCuT]

(and you did lie to me claiming you were a seceret mod so there's no denying that).

 

Wouldnt you like to know  :evil:

[blazeingstar]

If Blaze is being truthful about the whole "to each their own" bit, what's the purpose of continuing this discussion? Relativistic debates are pointless. If someone can believe it's a lie to answer a call from the imagination of a child, or to believe it would not, to each their own, then that's that. The End. Otherwise we all get stuck in a temporal causality loop.

I think Santa is a lie, but to each their own.

I think Santa is not a lie, but to each their own.

I think Santa is a lie, but to each their own.

I think Santa is not a lie, but to each their own.

And anoyingly so forth forever.

I think Santa is a lie, but to each their own.

I think Santa is not a lie, but to each their own.

 

I think Santa is a lie and that lying is wrong, especally to children.  However, I am very much an advocate for parental rights as they are often trampled by our goverment and peer pressure.  We have mothers having mental breakdowns over not being able to nurse, or co-sleep or cloth diaper.  We have fathers feeling emasculated becuase they sons have been potty trained to pee sitting or were/weren't circumsized or any other contraversial parenting subject.  So if parents want to lie to their kids I am not going to call shenanagans on the basis of parental rights.  If I was advising another parent I certinally would let them know it's a terrible idea.

 

I won't go so far as to say those parents who tell their children Santa is real are harming their children, but I also do not think they are benefiting their children, nor doing them any favors.

 

I also think that parents lie to their children because it's easier being a playmate than being a parent.  This extends to those times when the child grows older and the parent lies about sneaking out, or about a boyfriend before their father.  There are some things that are none of their business, and that can be stated clearly.  However, the betrayal of a lie, especally as a child grows is deeper.  I do not think the truth can ever be hidden.  There can be prudence surrounding certian actions, but sooner or later the truth will be revailed either in whole or in part.  I know many parents who were abused as children and cut off ties to their parents and told their children that their parents were "mean or bad" and persisted in not telling anything more until that child was well old enough to know and very curious about their biological family and are now in huge battles with their estranged parents becasuse JR or Etta found their aunt/uncle/grandparent on facebook and now communicates with this nice and friendly and wonderful person.  I think this sort of habit is started early in a child's life with the parent trying to create a magical childhood for thier child with things like Santa, the tooth fairy, the easter bunny and leprechauns.

 

I think it starts with Santa, covert pretend play and other things.  I feel that its the start of a slipery slope.  And despite your all predicitons of doom and gloom, I have managed to be a favorite nanny, psuedo auntie and babysitter among the children that I care for.  They all seem to be very healty, well balanced children weither or not their parents act like me, or do the whole Santa thing.  I must say though one of the children, now 13, is very bitter about Santa and the lies (she found out at 11) and does trust me and her friend more than her parents/aunts becuase we didn't participate in it.  Her sister "knows" about Santa but even at 10 is glad for the game.

[blazeingstar]

Wouldnt you like to know  :evil:

 

I do know.  I'm friends with mods.

[blazeingstar]

Are lies of omission in fact lies?

 

I believe neither lies of omission, nor lies of necessity, are moralistically considered mortal sins or serious venial sins as full lies would be.  There is much debate on Aquantis' part on this as well as scriptuarly.  For this reason I believe that they should only be reserved for matters of gravity, to prevent abuse, murder or other mortal sins since they verge on the venial.

Edited December 12, 2013 by blazeingstar

[KnightofChrist]

I believe neither lies of omission, nor lies of necessity, are moralistically considered mortal sins or serious venial sins as full lies would be. There is much debate on Aquantis' part on this as well as scriptuarly. For this reason I believe that they should only be reserved for matters of gravity, to prevent abuse, murder or other mortal sins since they verge on the venial.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but didn't you use to go by another screen name and you will not say who you were? I normally don't mind people having multiple ones, but I'm not a mod here. However if you are going to go about calling people "liars", multiple times now, even if I am mistaken and you're new here perhaps you should check your own eyes for splinters, logs, or tree houses before handing down personal judgements of other people. If I am not mistaken does that lie of omission make you a liar? Edited December 12, 2013 by KnightofChrist

[blazeingstar]

Perhaps I am mistaken, but didn't you use to go by another screen name and you will not say who you were? I normally don't mind people having multiple ones, but I'm not a mod here. However if you are going to go about calling people "liars", multiple times now. Even if I am mistaken and you're new here perhaps you should check your own eyes for splinters, logs, or tree houses before handing down personal judgements of other people. If I am not mistaken does that lie of omission make you a liar?

 

I don't have to say who I was, so long as I completely abandoned the account and am not using it to post.

 

Cross Cut knows exactly what I am speaking to, as she took it upon herself to make these declartions in PM after degrading another member.

 

Not revealing my identity via my old accounts is not a lie of ommission or is it a lie at all.  I have made it known that I was on here previously, but I do not believe that you are privvy to knowing who I was before.  That is not a lie.  It is not a lie to deny you knowlege of something when I am honest that I am doing so.  It would be a lie of omission to say "maybe" or "what do you think?".  You can guess if you'd like, and I'd prefer you'd PM me with those guesses rather than announcing them, as I will not confirm not deny them in public.  In private I will only promise do so to a moderator. (and there are both old and new mods aware of this).

[CrossCuT]

What did I declare again?

[Nihil Obstat]

[antebellum Southern accent] I do declare!! [/accent]

 

 

[blazeingstar]

What did I declare again?

 

 

CrossCuT
Sent 18 October 2013 - 04:22 PM

 

So in what way am I acting as a mod. Maybe I'm one of the few undercover mods!!

 

 

[KnightofChrist]

I don't have to say who I was, so long as I completely abandoned the account and am not using it to post.

Cross Cut knows exactly what I am speaking to, as she took it upon herself to make these declartions in PM after degrading another member.

Not revealing my identity via my old accounts is not a lie of ommission or is it a lie at all. I have made it known that I was on here previously, but I do not believe that you are privvy to knowing who I was before. That is not a lie. It is not a lie to deny you knowlege of something when I am honest that I am doing so. It would be a lie of omission to say "maybe" or "what do you think?". You can guess if you'd like, and I'd prefer you'd PM me with those guesses rather than announcing them, as I will not confirm not deny them in public. In private I will only promise do so to a moderator. (and there are both old and new mods aware of this).

I don't really care what name you use to call yourself. It's just amazing to me that you have a very strict understanding of what is a lie when it comes to others being guilty, but a loose understanding when it comes to yourself. For example I am a liar if I answer an imaginary phone call that a child gives to me. But you are not by changing your online identity without being open and honest of what name you use to go by in the past.

[blazeingstar]

I don't really care what name you use to call yourself. It's just amazing to me that you have a very strict understanding of what is a lie when it comes to others being guilty, but a loose understanding when it comes to yourself. For example I am a liar if I answer an imaginary phone call that a child gives to me. But you are not by changing your online identity without being open and honest of what name you use to go by in the past.

 

Not really.  And online identity is not ment to be all encompasing.  I see nothing wrong with changing a user name and I've checked with Mods about it.  I am not lying as I have made it very clearly know that I have been here and that I've been here longer than most users, even yourself.   From the beginning I've been fairly clear about that and have never lied/denied my previous participation in Phatmass.

 

I do not believe that changing my name is deceptive as it is not intended to deceve, rather becuase I just felt like this.  If the intent was to decieve, in any way, it would not be allowable by the mods and is/would be condemned by the rules.

 

PS-  this is what Phatmass looked  like when I originally joined. http://web.archive.org/web/20020805074024/http://phatmass.com/phorum/

Edited December 12, 2013 by blazeingstar

[CrossCuT]

 

 

Oh yeah I remember that! Tis a mystery

[havok579257]

I think Santa is a lie and that lying is wrong, especally to children.  However, I am very much an advocate for parental rights as they are often trampled by our goverment and peer pressure.  We have mothers having mental breakdowns over not being able to nurse, or co-sleep or cloth diaper.  We have fathers feeling emasculated becuase they sons have been potty trained to pee sitting or were/weren't circumsized or any other contraversial parenting subject.  So if parents want to lie to their kids I am not going to call shenanagans on the basis of parental rights.  If I was advising another parent I certinally would let them know it's a terrible idea.

 

I won't go so far as to say those parents who tell their children Santa is real are harming their children, but I also do not think they are benefiting their children, nor doing them any favors.

 

I also think that parents lie to their children because it's easier being a playmate than being a parent.  This extends to those times when the child grows older and the parent lies about sneaking out, or about a boyfriend before their father.  There are some things that are none of their business, and that can be stated clearly.  However, the betrayal of a lie, especally as a child grows is deeper.  I do not think the truth can ever be hidden.  There can be prudence surrounding certian actions, but sooner or later the truth will be revailed either in whole or in part.  I know many parents who were abused as children and cut off ties to their parents and told their children that their parents were "mean or bad" and persisted in not telling anything more until that child was well old enough to know and very curious about their biological family and are now in huge battles with their estranged parents becasuse JR or Etta found their aunt/uncle/grandparent on facebook and now communicates with this nice and friendly and wonderful person.  I think this sort of habit is started early in a child's life with the parent trying to create a magical childhood for thier child with things like Santa, the tooth fairy, the easter bunny and leprechauns.

 

I think it starts with Santa, covert pretend play and other things.  I feel that its the start of a slipery slope.  And despite your all predicitons of doom and gloom, I have managed to be a favorite nanny, psuedo auntie and babysitter among the children that I care for.  They all seem to be very healty, well balanced children weither or not their parents act like me, or do the whole Santa thing.  I must say though one of the children, now 13, is very bitter about Santa and the lies (she found out at 11) and does trust me and her friend more than her parents/aunts becuase we didn't participate in it.  Her sister "knows" about Santa but even at 10 is glad for the game.

 

 

how dare parents play with their children... the shame.
 

Edited December 12, 2013 by havok579257

[havok579257]

I don't have to say who I was, so long as I completely abandoned the account and am not using it to post.

 

Cross Cut knows exactly what I am speaking to, as she took it upon herself to make these declartions in PM after degrading another member.

 

Not revealing my identity via my old accounts is not a lie of ommission or is it a lie at all.  I have made it known that I was on here previously, but I do not believe that you are privvy to knowing who I was before.  That is not a lie.  It is not a lie to deny you knowlege of something when I am honest that I am doing so.  It would be a lie of omission to say "maybe" or "what do you think?".  You can guess if you'd like, and I'd prefer you'd PM me with those guesses rather than announcing them, as I will not confirm not deny them in public.  In private I will only promise do so to a moderator. (and there are both old and new mods aware of this).

 

 

so lies are ok if its to your benefit, gotcha.