Santa Claus

[Lilllabettt]

Are you sure they are pretending?  I never believed in Santa, but the friends and cousins I had that did believe in him didn't seem to be pretending.  It was my impression they genuinely believed.  I remember they were so genuinely sold on the idea that I was very careful not to burst their bubble.

 

So, its tricky. Because when children pretend they often become very involved. and emotionally invested in the game.

 

Some people (Piaget!) speculate that children lose track of reality when they play pretend. We "know" it from personal experience with a kid screaming their head off because they imagine a monster is under the bed.Maybe you, or someone you know, has had an imaginary friend. If you have experience with it you know they can be very intense relationships!  For example: its time for a trip to the zoo where a child is expecting to "meet up" with his imaginary friend. Only when they get there the child "finds out" that the imaginary friend has made other plans and is a no-show. Cue a temper tantrum.

 

Surely this little boy "believes" his imaginary friend is real? The answer, in a laboratory setting at least, is no.

 

If we take a handful of grown-ups and sit them down to watch a scary movie, and it is any good, their emotional system will be engaged. When something scary happens their pulse may race, blood pressure may rise. pupils dilate, skin reactivity, etc. But even though this system has been activated, they don't (typically) run screaming from the theater. Why not? Emotional reactivity in adults has a dual response system - one fast acting one in the amygdala, and another which sends the information to the cortex for processing. The cortex receives the "AHHHHHHHH!! run for your life!!!!" information, processes it, and says "chill out amygdala, we're not in real danger, its only a movie." 

 

This is a regulatory process that has to be practiced to become efficient and effective. Kids can do it, but they are a lot less efficient. It takes more time, more effort, more information. They never lose their grip on reality. But they can have a lot more trouble tamping down their emotional involvement.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Lilllabettt

[NotreDame]

So, its tricky. Because when children pretend they often become very involved. and emotionally invested in the game.

 

Some people (Piaget!) speculate that children lose track of reality when they play pretend. We "know" it from personal experience with a kid screaming their head off because they imagine a monster is under the bed.Maybe you, or someone you know, has had an imaginary friend. If you have experience with it you know they can be very intense relationships!  For example: its time for a trip to the zoo where a child is expecting to "meet up" with his imaginary friend. Only when they get there the child "finds out" that the imaginary friend has made other plans and is a no-show. Cue a temper tantrum.

 

Surely this little boy "believes" his imaginary friend is real? The answer, in a laboratory setting at least, is no.

 

If we take a handful of grown-ups and sit them down to watch a scary movie, and it is any good, their emotional system will be engaged. When something scary happens their pulse may race, blood pressure may rise. pupils dilate, skin reactivity, etc. But even though this system has been activated, they don't (typically) run screaming from the theater. Why not? Emotional reactivity in adults has a dual response system - one fast acting one in the amygdala, and another which sends the information to the cortex for processing. The cortex receives the "AHHHHHHHH!! run for your life!!!!" information, processes it, and says "chill out amygdala, we're not in real danger, its only a movie." 

 

This is a regulatory process that has to be practiced to become efficient and effective. Kids can do it, but they are a lot less efficient. It takes more time, more effort, more information. They never lose their grip on reality. But they can have a lot more trouble tamping down their emotional involvement.

 

 

[blazeingstar]

There have been studies on this (see the link to an article I provided a million pages back) saying that exercising the imagination for children is very healthy and good for development. The brain is still something that needs to be exercised like everything else and children do that by playing and make believe. Its similar to how animals play as well. Lion cubs will fake wrestle with each other and even while it seems like harmless play, they are developing skills that they will utilize later in life. 

 

 

Adults use imagination every day - its counterfactual thought. Doctors diagnose by imagining  what could be wrong with their patients, engineers imagine how a building might look,  mechanics imagine what parts will fix a car, artists imagine what they will sculpt,  in prayer when we read the Gospel we imagine ourselves there, students imagine when they learn the history of the Civil War...

 

When children pretend they are practicing the skills they'll need in these careers and more. When they role play they are practicing perspective taking and imagining what others might feel. By age 5 they have developed a theory of mind -- the understanding that people may have thoughts, beliefs, and ideas different from their own ---  which is the beginning of the sunset of egocentrism in children. Its critical to social well being. 

 

so ... Pretending IS work - very practical and valuable work which will continue to be put to practical use in adulthood.

 

 

I still utterly fail to see why adults should be involved.  Children do this on their own and do not need lying adults to help.  I have never said that children shouldn't play or imagine.  Just that adults shouldn't lie or foster their fantasies any more than necessary.

[blazeingstar]

The year I stop using NORAD to track Santa will be the day the little child in me dies. As it is, I still love jumping on trampolines and beds, I still use NORAD to track Santa, and I adamantly refuse to stop.

 

But seriously, if in the case God has chosen a poor and unfortunate girl to marry me and (Dare I say it) breed with me, I want to have fun with my kids and play with them. One thing I always wanted when I was a kid was my dad to make time to play with me more, but he was always so busy with work that he wasn't able to. We both missed out on what would have been great memories if he had played with me, and I wouldn't want to do the same with my children. Besides, since when are you ever too old to not have fun when playing games with children? I would to this day readily play G.I. Joe's with little kids just as readily as I would play tea party with a bunch of little girls.

 

Using Norad is exactly the kind of delusional thinking that I will teach my children to avoid.    I don't see what jumping on trampolines has to do with anything, it's exercise.  Jumping on a bed is stupid, you'll just break the bed and are very likely to injure yourself.

 

Sounds like you're the one who needs a hug...poor boy with cats in the cradle.  Kids need time...it dosn't need to be adults playing, just adults giving them time.  I know many people who's only memories are of their grandparents teaching them...and they value that extremely and have good work ethics.  Infact, most of the people I know with good work ethics had adults who taught children real life skills.   Some have active imaginations to this day, but it was up to them to have it, not the adults in their life.

[Archaeology cat]

Well, of course if the only interaction a kid has with grandparents or parents is when they're being taught they value that time. Children value any time they have with the adults in their lives. I certainly value all my parents and grandparents taught me (knitting, baking, decision making, perseverance, the Bible, faith, work ethic, etc). But I also cherish the memories of my grandfather playing pretend with me. Maybe he wouldn't have as much had he not had a massive heart attack before I was born. Or maybe he would have. He valued every moment with us, though. Vos I again I think it's a false dichotomy to say adults can either engage in pretend play with their kids or teach them valuable skills. Ad maybe it's just that, as an archaeologist, I have to use my imagination quite a bit. Why use it for work and not for playing with my kids? Not that I'm in the field any more, but I try to keep up with it at least somewhat.

ETA: and again, I'm not saying my approach is the only one, just pointing out that engaging in pretend play isn't a waste of time or lying, and doesn't mean practical skills aren't also tight. Of course, I consider imagination to be a practical skill.

God bless

Edited December 8, 2013 by Archaeology cat

[PhuturePriest]

Using Norad is exactly the kind of delusional thinking that I will teach my children to avoid.    I don't see what jumping on trampolines has to do with anything, it's exercise.  Jumping on a bed is stupid, you'll just break the bed and are very likely to injure yourself.

 

Sounds like you're the one who needs a hug...poor boy with cats in the cradle.  Kids need time...it dosn't need to be adults playing, just adults giving them time.  I know many people who's only memories are of their grandparents teaching them...and they value that extremely and have good work ethics.  Infact, most of the people I know with good work ethics had adults who taught children real life skills.   Some have active imaginations to this day, but it was up to them to have it, not the adults in their life.

 

[PhuturePriest]

Using Norad is exactly the kind of delusional thinking that I will teach my children to avoid.    I don't see what jumping on trampolines has to do with anything, it's exercise.  Jumping on a bed is stupid, you'll just break the bed and are very likely to injure yourself.

 

Sounds like you're the one who needs a hug...poor boy with cats in the cradle.  Kids need time...it dosn't need to be adults playing, just adults giving them time.  I know many people who's only memories are of their grandparents teaching them...and they value that extremely and have good work ethics.  Infact, most of the people I know with good work ethics had adults who taught children real life skills.   Some have active imaginations to this day, but it was up to them to have it, not the adults in their life.

 

No kid on the planet would see jumping on a trampoline as "exercise". The fact that it's exercise is just convenient, because jumping on trampolines is really fun, and that's what kids care about. I've never heard a kid say "I need to go jump on the trampoline; I haven't exercised at all today!"

 

If my father was a businessman that was always away, and the only time I ever spent with him as a child was speaking to him through Skype, I would have treasured those moments. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have preferred to play pretend with him in the yard, it just means I appreciated every moment I that I got with him because it was so rare.

[Archaeology cat]

To quote Albert Einstein, "Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research"

[CrossCuT]

[MIKolbe]

 I have several friends children.  

[tinytherese]

As a child, I would've been sad and confused if my parents hadn't played along when I pretended. I would've thought that they didn't like me or that they were implying that pretending was stupid, therefore something was wrong with me.

[add]

Encouraging a young child to be honest, giving, and kind to strangers by rewarding said behavior with favor is not far from the truth.

 

IE:

 

"DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old.
"Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus.
"Papa says, 'If you see it in THE SUN it's so.'
"Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus?

"VIRGINIA O'HANLON.
"115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET."

VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

Edited December 9, 2013 by add

[PhuturePriest]

Encouraging a young child to be honest, giving, and kind to strangers by rewarding said behavior with favor is not far from the truth.

 

IE:

 

"DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old.
"Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus.
"Papa says, 'If you see it in THE SUN it's so.'
"Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus?

"VIRGINIA O'HANLON.
"115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET."

VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

 

This seems kind of heavy for a small child.

[CrossCuT]

You has candy?

[Quid Est Veritas?]

As a kid in second grade I believed so strongly that I denounced one of my non-believing classmates as a heretic for not believing in Santa. It got ugly. :P
I can see both sides. I really enjoyed the time that I spent believing in Santa, but when I found out (through some serious snooping) that he wasn't real I was devastated. It wasn't because I'd been "lied to". It was because he wasn't real. I imagine it was comparable to finding out that God isn't real.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do for my kids.