Papa Francis Attacks 'idolatry Of Money'

[the171]

The Pope sounds like a Liberal Democrat, and it disturbs me that suddenly those who have hated the Church love this particular Pope, but from my perspective, for the wrong reasons.

 

 

dude, the pope doesn't belong to a political party. his views are the views of the church. #socialjustice

[PhuturePriest]

I love Catholic social teaching, because I like sticking it in the faces of hardcore Democrats and hardcore Republicans.

 

Does this make me a bad person? Most probably. Is it still fun to see peoples' faces when the Pope says something that shocks them politically? Unquestionably so.

[NotreDame]

I love Catholic social teaching, because I like sticking it in the faces of hardcore Democrats and hardcore Republicans.

 

Except what you are reading is a very bad translation of something the Pope said, not what the Pope said. 
 

[CrossCuT]

In an ideal, perfect world a lot of political systems would work...heck...in a perfect world who needs money at all?!?

 

But the fact is, we dont live in a perfect world and every political system will grow to be corrupt in one way or another. As Catholics we need to view the world through our Catholic hearts and not our political heads. 

[Basilisa Marie]

Except what you are reading is a very bad translation of something the Pope said, not what the Pope said. 
 

 

Bad translations are a big, serious problem, and certainly need to be addressed. 

 

But when people hide behind the "bad translation" idea in order to not be challenged by the Pope's words... well, that's something that needs to be addressed too. 

 

I think it's important to remember that John Paul II came from Poland, which is certainly why he fought so hard against communism. Francis comes from Argentina, where capitalism isn't the *best thing ever* because he's seen a lot of examples of how money translates to corrupting power. So it makes sense that he would have more biting critiques of capitalism than other popes.  The problem isn't capitalism, the problem is that unregulated capitalism serves as a temptation to people with power, tempting them toward corruption and exploitation. So we need checks on it to help it not exploit people.  Hence, Francis' criticisms of capitalism. 

[NotreDame]

But when people hide behind the "bad translation" idea in order to not be challenged by the Pope's words... well, that's something that needs to be addressed too. 

 

Excuse me for pointing out the truth and breaking up your little economic hate-fest.   I'll just get out of the way, lest pointing out the truth again brings further judgement and calls for me being "addressed."

Edited December 9, 2013 by NotreDame

[PhuturePriest]

Excuse me for pointing out the truth and breaking up your little economic hate-fest.   I'll just get out of the way, lest pointing out the truth again brings further judgement and calls for me being "addressed."

 

Why do you say it's not an accurate translation?

[NotreDame]

Why do you say it's not an accurate translation?

 

Read the thread, yo.

[Anomaly]

PLINY:
"What is it that the Pope would wants changed? MORE economic controls? .... Does he have SPECIFIC ideas?"

Good point that I would like to see addressed by the Free Market haters. What economic system would be recommended that would disallow control by imperfect humans? Is there an "Infalliple Economic Pope" position that needs to be filled?

[4588686]

PLINY:
"What is it that the Pope would wants changed? MORE economic controls? .... Does he have SPECIFIC ideas?"

Good point that I would like to see addressed by the Free Market haters. What economic system would be recommended that would disallow control by imperfect humans? Is there an "Infalliple Economic Pope" position that needs to be filled?

 

 

Right.  What specific policy does the Pope, addressing an international audience, want changed.  That question makes a lot of sense.  

[Era Might]

If prophecy were policy, what would be the point? "Woe to the rich" is not an economic policy statement.

 

Next papal exhortation:

 

Dear World,

 

You're all doing swell. Here's a pat on the back.

 

Pope Frank

[Anomaly]

If prophecy were policy, what would be the point? "Woe to the rich" is not an economic policy statement.

Next papal exhortation:

Dear World,

You're all doing swell. Here's a pat on the back.

Pope Frank

Then woe to Job when he became wealthy after becoming poor when he was once rich?

And I didn't get the admonition a for the prodigal son to forgo the family wealth he returned to and enjoy his poverty while revisiting his family.

Maybe it isn't bad to simply become or be rich. Maybe wealth is only bad if that is your primary purpose and ANY means is justifiable. Hmmmm

[Era Might]

Then woe to Job when he became wealthy after becoming poor when he was once rich?

And I didn't get the admonition a for the prodigal son to forgo the family wealth he returned to and enjoy his poverty while revisiting his family.

Maybe it isn't bad to simply become or be rich. Maybe wealth is only bad if that is your primary purpose and ANY means is justifiable. Hmmmm

 

Maybe it isn't. Nevertheless, if "woe to the rich" becomes "woe to the rich, except in these 21 cases" then the whole point of prophetic proclamation has been lost. There's no point in quibbling with popes on that end, they aren't politicians. The pope isn't a Son of the American Revolution...you won't get very far if he has to fit into your social schema.

[NotreDame]

Right.  What specific policy does the Pope, addressing an international audience, want changed.  That question makes a lot of sense.  

 

I think a different way to ask the question is "what exactly is immoral and what is moral in this realm and why?"

 

That's a fair question because one role of the Church is to give moral guidance on new, previously unseen circumstances.  In the past it has done this very clearly and concisely on topics such as free-masonry, socialism, and birth control. 

 

This document does not do this, yet neither is that it's purpose.  It's purpose is to discuss "the proclamation of the gospel."

[Era Might]

I'm curious how this would be received for something other than economics, merely replacing one word for another:

 

In this context, some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth education, encouraged by a free market school system, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic social power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic education system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting. To sustain a lifestyle which excludes others, or to sustain enthusiasm for that selfish ideal, a globalization of indifference has developed. Almost without being aware of it, we end up being incapable of feeling compassion at the outcry of the poor, weeping for other people’s pain, and feeling a need to help them, as though all this were someone else’s responsibility and not our own. The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market education system offers us something new to purchase. In the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us.

 

Is that a denial of the positive benefits of free education? Doesn't read that way to me, and I imagine the same paragraph would be cheered in certain circles for almost any other social topic other than economics.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Era Might