Papa Francis Attacks 'idolatry Of Money'

[CrossCuT]

 

Pope Francis called for renewal of the Roman Catholic Church and attacked unfettered capitalism as "a new tyranny", urging global leaders to fight poverty and growing inequality in the first major work he has authored alone as pontiff.

The 84-page document, known as an apostolic exhortation, amounted to an official platform for his papacy, building on views he has aired in sermons and remarks since he became the first non-European pontiff in 1,300 years in March.

In it, Francis went further than previous comments criticizing the global economic system, attacking the "idolatry of money" and beseeching politicians to guarantee all citizens "dignified work, education and healthcare".

"I prefer a Church which is bruised, hurting and dirty because it has been out on the streets, rather than a Church which is unhealthy from being confined and from clinging to its own security," he wrote.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/pope-francis-evangelii-gaudium-calls-for-renewal-of-roman-catholic-church-attacks-idolatry-of-money-

 

 

 

"Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free marked, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still wanting."

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/politics/pope-francis-denounces-economic-inequality-consumerism/619/

[Pliny]

Of course the "idolatry of money" is wrong, but I find some of Pope Francis' words to be quite disturbing, and I hope it's due to a bad translation or a misunderstanding on my part.  And I realize the Pope is speaking to the world and not just the US, but he seems to be criticizing the very thing that has helped the US become a super-power, has raised ALL its citizens to undreamed of levels just a couple of centuries ago, and which enables the US to be so generous to other countries.

 

There is nothing wrong with free markets.  I wish we had a truly free market in the US but we're close enough to that ideal to be able to reap its rewards.  It would be even better if we had less "fetters" holding it back.

 

What is it that the Pope would wants changed?  MORE economic controls?  MORE government workers and bureaucracy and waste?  Does he have SPECIFIC ideas?

 

In the US we have minimum wage laws which are price controls that effectively guarantee a high level of unemployment for the unskilled.  Teenagers who could be productive earning less than minimum wage are prohibited from doing so, and become unnecessary burdens for their families and society, whereas if they had not been constrained by price controls, could freely enter into an agreement with an employer and contribute goods and services to our economy, making us all a little richer, while they gain valuable skills and work themselves into a higher paying job.  

 

In the US we have union government workers who have negotiated payment and benefit packages that far exceed what is comparable in the private sector.  The teachers unions have a lock on the educational system, while those of us who have sent our children to private schools have paid their salaries plus the salaries of the private school teachers.  This government control that gives an inefficient and immoral public school system a monopoly is extracting billions from our economy, yet they are free to operate outside of the "tyranny" of a free market, which would allow for competition and which would lead to greater efficiency.

 

The former mayor of NYC, Rudi Juliani, said that he had to budget for THREE police forces.  The one currently serving.  The one before that.  And the one before that one.  The taxpayer is left to foot the bill for unrealistic and greedy pension plans.

 

We hear so much about the greed of the rich, but never about government greed and the greed of the masses, who will take what they can get at the expense of others.  Free stuff from the government and government-guaranteed high salaries and other favors are paid for by someone else.  But "the rich," who have so much stuff that they don't really need, and it's so unfair, boo hoo, are made into scapegoats, while the reality is that if we confiscated their wealth and spread it around, it wouldn't make that much difference in our lives.  

 

But if we could let the free markets work and get the government out of the way of what it can do, we would all be better off.  The free market and the rich are not the enemies.

 

The Pope sounds like a Liberal Democrat, and it disturbs me that suddenly those who have hated the Church love this particular Pope, but from my perspective, for the wrong reasons.

 

Say it ain't so Pope Francis.  

 

 

 

[mortify ii]

Of course the "idolatry of money" is wrong, but I find some of Pope Francis' words to be quite disturbing, and I hope it's due to a bad translation or a misunderstanding on my part.  And I realize the Pope is speaking to the world and not just the US, but he seems to be criticizing the very thing that has helped the US become a super-power, has raised ALL its citizens to undreamed of levels just a couple of centuries ago, and which enables the US to be so generous to other countries.

 

I haven't read the full exhortation but the quotes I did read found a strong resonance with me. Capitalism can be a just system, but too often it exploits the worker for the sake of those atop the pyramid. The Pope is defending Catholic social teaching, rather than promoting a particular economic theory.

 

I think the Church should always keep some healthy distance from entangling itself with a particular nation. It seems to be a recurring problem, first time was with the Roman Empire, later on with France, and furthermore with the United States. The US has been raised to a sort of mythical standard since the Pope aligned with Reagan against communism. The reality is it is far from ideal, and most of the world knows this. So the Pope criticizing certain aspects of America is a prudent and healthy thing.

[Pliny]

So how does capitalism "exploit the worker"?

 

And what needs to be done to prevent it?

 

I've already provided an example of the harm that minimum wages laws cause, in supposedly an attempt to keep workers from being "exploited."  But all that does is add costs to the products and services and forces businesses to be more picky and choosy in whom they hire, as well as seek out capital goods that can replace labor.

 

Exploiting workers and people is wrong.  Yet that is already happening in the US in unseen and often acceptable ways, in the form of redistribution of wealth, special wages and benefits to elite groups such as government workers, and crony capitalism--giving special deals to unions and businesses.

 

We need to be specific lest we throw out the baby with the bath water.  Capitalism is good.  It's the fairest economic system.  Systems that control prices and freedom of trade stifle the economy and inhibit our personal freedoms.  And they presume that the government is somehow smarter and better than individuals in their own self-interest, freely trading their goods and services.

 

What SPECIFIC problem in the US has been caused by capitalism and what is the remedy?

[4588686]

 

We need to be specific lest we throw out the baby with the bath water.  Capitalism is good.  It's the fairest economic system.  Systems that control prices and freedom of trade stifle the economy and inhibit our personal freedoms.  And they presume that the government is somehow smarter and better than individuals in their own self-interest, freely trading their goods and services.

 

What SPECIFIC problem in the US has been caused by capitalism and what is the remedy?

 

 

Income inequality.  Maybe a consumption tax and strict limits on campaign finance.

[4588686]

$30 plz

[PhuturePriest]

Income inequality.  Maybe a consumption tax and strict limits on campaign finance.

 

Could you explain what income inequality specifically means? I've never heard anyone that complains about it say more than "Income inequality is evil because we all deserve equal pay!" which to me sounds like they're saying everyone from NASA engineers to custodians should be paid equally. I know that's (Hopefully) not what they mean, but that's what it sounds like when they talk about it.

Edited December 7, 2013 by FuturePriest387

[Pliny]

Income inequality.  Maybe a consumption tax and strict limits on campaign finance.

 

Income inequality?

 

So?

 

I don't know if you like sports or popular music, but if you do, see how many good recordings or entertaining sporting events there would be if everyone were paid the same.

 

But the idea of taxing consumption instead of income seems like a good idea.

[NotreDame]

There are significant translation issues with what was posted above:

 

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/11/evangelii-gaudium-54-trickle-down-economics-significant-translation-error-changed-meaning/

 

Although it's just one example, as a spanish speaker I can attest that "por si mismo" does not mean "inevitably"... In no way shape or form.  "Si mismo" always means "itself, his self, them self" etc. "por" is a preposition like "through" or "by" So this would always be "by/through itself".  "Inevitable" in Spanish and "Inevitable" in english are 1:1 translations with the same latin root. 

 

Someone translating "por si mismo" to "inevitably" is either completely incompentent (not likely if they are an official translator) or they are purposely twisting the Pope's words, with the desired effect of upsetting anyone who has actually studied Economics and dividing the laity.  (Not the first time parties in the vatican tried to stifle the pope via translations.)

 

We would be wise to only read the original spanish until we get a legit translation.   And it's only a couple of paragraphs that actually deal tangentially with economics.  The exhortation (not encyclical) is on preaching the gospel. 

 

[Pliny]

I know enough Spanish that I could wade through it, so I would appreciate a link if you have one.

 

I'm especially interested in the Spanish words that translated to "trickle down economics."

 

Thanks.

[4588686]

Could you explain what income inequality specifically means? I've never heard anyone that complains about it say more than "Income inequality is evil because we all deserve equal pay!" which to me sounds like they're saying everyone from NASA engineers to custodians should be paid equally. I know that's (Hopefully) not what they mean, but that's what it sounds like when they talk about it.

 

 

It it isn't wrong that inequality in income exists.  I get paid a lot more than my friends who work at Starbucks. My job is a lot more stressful and I work longer hours and have a more specific skill set than they do.  My friends who work in finance make a lot more than I do.  That's all good.  The problem is extreme income inequality and concentrations of wealth.  Wealth is a form of social power.  Particularly in a context like the US where we have long, expensive campaigns and a lot of avenues for private individuals to funnel money to canids yes and causes.  You're vote is, generally speaking, insignificant.  You have extremely limited influence over any candidate.  If you can cut a thousand dollar check then your opinion counts a lot more.  That gets exacerbated when you can bankroll a candidate's Super PAC.

 

thats just a very general and quick example.  Joseph Stiglitz has  written some accessible stuff on how income inequality can lead to distorted markets and Larry M Bartels wrote a good booked called Unequal Democracy

[4588686]

Income inequality?

 

So?

 

 

Income inequality exacerbates rent seeking behavior?  Rent seeking behavior is bad?

[NotreDame]

I know enough Spanish that I could wade through it, so I would appreciate a link if you have one.

 

I'm especially interested in the Spanish words that translated to "trickle down economics."

 

Thanks.

 

the word was "derrame".  Go to the link I posted, you should get enough from that link to find the original in spanish or to know what to google in order to find it.  Do share any insights.  I don't have the time to devote to it quite yet.

[mortify ii]

So how does capitalism "exploit the worker"?

 

The capitalist system permits the exploitation of the worker, it need not be so but human greed is overpowering. I'm being exploited in my corporation because I'm not getting paid relative to the financial benefit I make for my organization. My general manager gets a hundred thousand dollar bonus for the hard work my coworkers and I perform, and what do we get? A pizza party. In a just system everyone would get what they deserve relative to what they contribute, but that is not what's happening here. What's happening is that those at the top want to make as much as they can, so they pay those below them as little they can, all so they can fill their greed. In our last quarterly review, my company made on average 1.5 BILLION dollars *more* every month previous to it for the past three months. We're talking billions here, and yet my health care benefits are not improving, my wage is not increasing, my quality of life is not improving. In fact, even despite over exceeding my quotas in every area, I'm still not able to get out of my evening shift which I have been at for three years and negatively affects my life. Change job you say? There are no jobs to go to, and even if there were they are all the same. This is just my experience, but are other Americans fairing any better? I think others are fairing much worse.

 

Let me go further and say that I was born in a socialist country, and despite socialism dying out and capitalism taking over, life has not improved. Sure, some have gotten wealthy but for most there is only more misery. It's not uncommon to meet people who miss Communism...after all, work was plentiful, people worked normal hours, you had time for your family, and despite the stigma Communism has people were more religious. Yes, my nation was a more faithful country under Communism than it is under capitalism. So what is this wonderful benefit you speak of? Being able to choose between an ipad mini vs a nexus 7? No thanks.

 

Lastly, let us not forget something very important that is often neglected. Catholics often complain against homosexuality and how evil it is, but what about that oft forgotten sin of charging interest? Do you know where Dante sends the usurers? Those who charge interest are in the same level of hell occupied by sodomites. Where is the outcry against this evil that pervades our society? And is not capitalism ultimately a system of usury?

 

What we want is a traditional Catholic society, and not a pagan metropolis.

[arfink]

Well, I don't think Pope Francis has said anything that unusual, considering Jesus' words:

 

"Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

 

I have seen a lot of folks go all prickly at those words, saying, what harm are the rich? What harm are free markets?

 

What harm indeed? It does not matter. If you wish to be perfect, give to the poor. It matters not what harm there is (or is not) in being rich.

 

But of course, there is this little problem if the rich man will not give to the poor. Obviously Jesus had choice words for those folks as well. Like the rich man who would not care for Lazarus, who then begs for a single drop of water to cool his tongue as he burns in Hell.

Edited December 8, 2013 by arfink