Swim Suit Competitions

[Freedom]

I never made a comparison, i asked a question. 

and I answered a question with an observation

[Lilllabettt]

No.

I find that very hard to believe.
But perhaps we have different standards where male behavior towards the female sex is concerned.
I personally take offense at any man staring at a woman in a bikini, whether he is my boyfriend or not.
Or any man expressing excitement at the opportunity to see a woman in a bikini, whether he is my boyfriend or not.

Of course I am also disgusted by Hooters, which several chicks tried to tell me the other day is somehow a "family friendly" restaurant. So standards differ.

Men get a scholarship for poise at Speech and Debate.
Chicks get a scholarship for poise at walking in high heels and looking pretty.
Smells like indignity to me.

[Slappo]

I agree 100% with lillabett.

 

It's no surprise that when a news company is writing an article about one of the pageants the picture displayed is always one of the catwalk type pictures...

[Slappo]

I would have a lot less of a problem with the whole modeling industry if they were "by women for women" or "by men for men" events. Where it was truly an individual displaying the clothing in order to display CLOTHING.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Razzle dazzle. I have had an iluminatory momment. Ok this is how my swim suit cat walk is going to run. There will be different body shapes and sizes, different facial shapes and sizes, big noses little noses, any colored hair short and long, any skin tone, big hands little hands, big feet little feet, any hieght, etc etc, you get the point. But get this there will also be men of the same quota on the swimsuit catwalk modelling mens swim wear. And wait for it here is the catch that makes it extra interesting or perhaps biased, all the contestants have to have an i.q score of over 95 and here is the deal clincher, It will be called ......................................................... DRUM ROLL.................................................................

 

 

 

BRAIN WAVE.

[Lilllabettt]

Well, a swimsuit competition is not a runway show it. I repeat: people do not watch swimsuit competitions to check out the trending colors and patterns.
I think you are missing my point about brains.
Many, I would say most beauty pageant contestants have above average intellect.
The problem is that the beauty pageant is not a test of intellectual poise.
It is a test of poise while balancing on high heels, poise while being exposed in a bathing suit, and poise while schmoozing.
Beauty pageants exist because historically this is the poise women were expected to strive for and excel at. And so how natural that they receive scholarships for being good at it. Good at what? Looking good.

[SaintOfVirtue]

Well, a swimsuit competition is not a runway show it. I repeat: people do not watch swimsuit competitions to check out the trending colors and patterns.
I think you are missing my point about brains.
Many, I would say most beauty pageant contestants have above average intellect.
The problem is that the beauty pageant is not a test of intellectual poise.
It is a test of poise while balancing on high heels, poise while being exposed in a bathing suit, and poise while schmoozing.
Beauty pageants exist because historically this is the poise women were expected to strive for and excel at. And so how natural that they receive scholarships for being good at it. Good at what? Looking good.

 

 

Is any "beauty competition" really ever about trending colors and patterns?

I don't think so.  It's as much about the person wearing the clothes as it is the clothes themselves.  I am not condoning this; just pointing out the phenomena is not isolated to swim suits alone.

 

Further, there are plenty of other scholarship opportunities that women can and do win, so what's the problem with giving the winner of a beauty contest scholarship money?  It's not like it was their only option for a scholarship, they chose to participate.

[Lilllabettt]

Further, there are plenty of other scholarship opportunities that women can and do win, so what's the problem with giving the winner of a beauty contest scholarship money?  It's not like it was their only option for a scholarship, they chose to participate.

The problem is that the beauty pageant tradition is born of a historical expectation that the ideal woman will be pretty and attractive and talk inoffensive polite nonsense at parties. The message is: these are the things the ideal woman - actually the ideal wife - should do, so lets have a contest among the Misses (i.e., marriageable women) to see who can do it best.

There is not a similar tradition for men. No one had the idea to have a contest to see which man could do those things best.

A woman who is neat and clean but does not invest a lot of time or money in hair products, makeup or clothing and worse expresses a political opinion is never called a beauty queen, she is more likely to be called something else that starts with a "b."


ETA: **my point is that swimsuit competitions can be related to porn, and participating in or enjoying a beauty pageant is joining in a misogynistic ritual. Which, incidentally, porn is a misogynistic ritual. So in other words, its not right, don't do it. Edited November 23, 2013 by Lilllabettt

[SaintOfVirtue]

There is not a similar tradition for men. No one had the idea to have a contest to see which man could do those things best.

I can name several similar competitions for men, many of which predate beauty competitions:

1. Bodybuilding competitions
2. Bare-knuckle boxing
3. Cross-training competitions
4. Ironman competitions
5. Football

A woman who is neat and clean but does not invest a lot of time or money in hair products, makeup or clothing and worse expresses a political opinion is never called a beauty queen, she is more likely to be called something else that starts with a "b."

Well, I guess that depends on the company you keep, but I do not believe this is true of the general culture.

ETA: **my point is that swimsuit competitions can be related to porn, and participating or enjoying a beauty pageant is joining in a misogynistic ritual. Which, incidentally, porn is a misogynistic ritual. So in other words, its not right, don't do it.

This is about as valid an analogy as saying an Oreo cookie is Cocaine. In no way is merely looking at someone in a swim suit equatable to watching the debauchery that is porn. If it were we would have to veiw going to the beach, pool, or water park in the same light as porn.

[Lilllabettt]

the difference is that (most) people do not go to the beach in order to put themselves on display and (most) people do not go to the beach to look at a display. They go to enjoy the water or relax or read a book. A modest woman puts on a swimsuit and goes to the pool because she wants to swim damm it. She does not arrange her clothing and her body with the hope that people will look her up and down and rank order her with other people on the beach.

Now if a woman strips down to a swimsuit and goes to the beach so that people will look at her exposed body, that is called stripping, and it is a short stop away from porn and prostitution. I hope you do not go to the beach to look at the people there. But most men who watch beauty pageants do it to look at the exposed bodies of women. The women who walk in the competition, the judges, the people who make the show and the people who watch it all understand that very well.

If you watch the swimsuit competition to see the trendy swimsuits, good for you. But you are still participating in a fundamentally misogynistic enterprise.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Lilllabettt

[ChristinaTherese]

:offtopic: But I'm saying this anyway.

 

Lilllabettt, I've generally thought of myself as not a feminist at all. But... I keep reading what you have to say (and reading one of my characters before life happened and I gave up on NaNoWriMo) and thinking that feminism really has some good points. Just not all obnoxious militant feminism. Kind of like what I'm against throws the baby out with the bathwater but there is some bathwater that it would be good to throw out all the same.

 

Anyway.... This is still kind of :offtopic:

[Ed Normile]

Then why do gay men watch it?

 

Checkmate, atheists.

 

Gay men watch swim suit competitions? I thought stuff like that and beauty contests were for women only. I guess I could see maybe a transvestite man watching one for fashion tips like a woman might, but what reason would any man gay or straight have to watch a swim suit competition?

 

ed

[Nihil Obstat]

I have a feeling that if St. Paul knew about swimsuit competitions, he would have some choice things to say about worldliness.

[Lilllabettt]

:offtopic: But I'm saying this anyway.
 
Lilllabettt, I've generally thought of myself as not a feminist at all. But... I keep reading what you have to say (and reading one of my characters before life happened and I gave up on NaNoWriMo) and thinking that feminism really has some good points. Just not all obnoxious militant feminism. Kind of like what I'm against throws the baby out with the bathwater but there is some bathwater that it would be good to throw out all the same.
 
Anyway.... This is still kind of :offtopic:

Yeah ... there is nothing wrong with authentic feminism. Many things women take for granted today were won for us by feminists. Edited November 23, 2013 by Lilllabettt

[SaintOfVirtue]

Now if a woman strips down to a swimsuit and goes to the beach so that people will look at her exposed body, that is called stripping, and it is a short stop away from porn and prostitution. I hope you do not go to the beach to look at the people there. But most men who watch beauty pageants do it to look at the exposed bodies of women. The women who walk in the competition, the judges, the people who make the show and the people who watch it all understand that very well.

 

First of all, I do not watch any swim suit competitions, nor do I go to the beach with the express purpose of ogling women.

 

I believe the spectators of swim suit competitions are, demographically, more female than male because I honestly cannot think of a single guy who would rather watch Miss America than the ball game.  And what would you know about most men who watch beauty pageants anyways? Do you know so many of them that you were able to poll them on the issue or are you just making presumptions?

 

Lastly, I happen to personally know three women who participate in beauty contests; some happen to have a swim suit event, some do not.  Therefore I think I can speak with some authority when I say you are making broad judgments about the character of people about whom you know nothing.  If you liken the competition to pornography or prostitution then you liken the participants as porn-stars and prostitutes, and that is the real problem I have with your argument.  These are two completely separate things: one is intrinsically evil, and the other is only 'evil' on a case-by-case basis. 

 

 

I have a feeling that if St. Paul knew about swimsuit competitions, he would have some choice things to say about worldliness.

 

Now on that ground I would concede. 
Is it worldly? Yes. 
Is it mostly vain? Probably.
But is it pornographic? Definitely not.