Question For Those Who Have Been In Religious Life

[Gabriela]

My understanding of religious life (specifically monastic life) is that it seeks to strike a balance between community life (i.e., self-sacrifice for the community) and individual flourishing. In other words, certain accommodations (e.g., work assignments, exceptions to rules, etc.) may be made if these accommodations are necessary for an individual to achieve her spiritual and human potential in religious life. So, for example, Brother Thomas Merton was permitted to move into a hermitage. Saint Teresa Benedicta of the Cross was permitted to continue her philosophical study. I have heard of sisters being permitted to eat in between meals because they feel starved if they don't. Etc.

 

My question is this: Should one expect a period of "proving willingness to sacrifice for the community" before such accommodations are made? So, for example, if I enter religious life tomorrow, and I discover that I am miserable doing the work they have assigned me to because God has called me, say, to paint icons, should I mention this?

 

I know many people are afraid to mention such things at all because they fear the community will perceive them as unwilling to accept what the community has assigned them to, as unable to live under the community's rules, etc.—which may result in getting kicked out. Is it wiser to suffer under the work assignment, unbearable rule, etc., until some later date, and if so, when? Or should one mention one's discomfort in order to give the community the opportunity to accommodate one's individual gifts/limitations?

 

It seems the stakes in getting this wrong may be quite high. If one doesn't mention one's gifts/limitations, then one might come to the (possibly wrong) conclusion that one is unsuited to religious life. And yet if one does, and the community perceives the request for accommodation as a sign that one is unsuited to religious life, then one may get kicked out.

 

Rock < > Hard place.

 

Difficult...

 

But maybe not so difficult as I imagine it. What has been your experience?

[miserere55]

Dear Curiousing,

 

     It is my experience in religious life, both in an active community and then in a strict cloister, that it is not a good idea to go in and ask for accommodations or certain work.  The special things for Thomas Merton and others came later in their lives within the monastery..  Nothing like that would really be permitted in the phases of initial formation - not until after perpetual vows.  Of course, upon entering you will be given an opportunity to let them know your talents and interests and offer to help in those capacities, and you might be permitted to paint icons during recreation.  But there is a vow of obedience that you will be preparing to take, and unfortunately that is not always an easy vow to keep.  In my cloister, the novices and postulants did the cleaning, shoveling of snow and gardening (weeding, mulching, plowing, etc.)  They also peeled potatoes every day and did the monastery laundry - and there were no machines and dryers, it took a full day each week.  Everyone must contribute to the work in the monastery.  Some monasteries do have "free time."  In my monastery, the only free time was after compline in the evening and before lights out.  But since we rose at 12:30 for matins, (and at 5:00), most sisters went right to bed.  Our days were long, and we worked hard.

 

     So, please let the monastery know what your talents and interests are, but be prepared to give them up if that is required.  And know, too, that monasteries for men are often more open to those type of things than are groups of women. 

[Gabriela]

Dear Curiousing,

 

     It is my experience in religious life, both in an active community and then in a strict cloister, that it is not a good idea to go in and ask for accommodations or certain work.  The special things for Thomas Merton and others came later in their lives within the monastery..  Nothing like that would really be permitted in the phases of initial formation - not until after perpetual vows.  Of course, upon entering you will be given an opportunity to let them know your talents and interests and offer to help in those capacities, and you might be permitted to paint icons during recreation.  But there is a vow of obedience that you will be preparing to take, and unfortunately that is not always an easy vow to keep.  In my cloister, the novices and postulants did the cleaning, shoveling of snow and gardening (weeding, mulching, plowing, etc.)  They also peeled potatoes every day and did the monastery laundry - and there were no machines and dryers, it took a full day each week.  Everyone must contribute to the work in the monastery.  Some monasteries do have "free time."  In my monastery, the only free time was after compline in the evening and before lights out.  But since we rose at 12:30 for matins, (and at 5:00), most sisters went right to bed.  Our days were long, and we worked hard.

 

     So, please let the monastery know what your talents and interests are, but be prepared to give them up if that is required.  And know, too, that monasteries for men are often more open to those type of things than are groups of women. 

 

Thank you, miserere, for this response. I don't actually paint icons; that was just a hypothetical example! But it's interesting that you say that women's houses are less open to accommodating people than men's houses. Why do you think that's so?

[NotreDame]

  In my monastery, the only free time was after compline in the evening and before lights out.  But since we rose at 12:30 for matins, (and at 5:00), most sisters went right to bed.  days were long, and we worked hard.

 

     So, please let the monastery know what your talents and interests are, but be prepared to give them up if that is required.  And know, too, that monasteries for men are often more open to those type of things than are groups of women. 

 

Wait... So you had to get up at 12:30AM every night for Matins?  Am I reading that right?  Then you woke up everyday at 5AM?  When was compline, ie. when could you actually get in bed?  I'm correct in reading that you didn't have to wait for lights out, but could go to bed early?

[Gabriela]

Wait... So you had to get up at 12:30AM every night for Matins?  Am I reading that right?  Then you woke up everyday at 5AM?  When was compline, ie. when could you actually get in bed?  I'm correct in reading that you didn't have to wait for lights out, but could go to bed early?

 

That's pretty normal in a cloister, dude.

[NotreDame]

Dude!  the 5AM part I get... The waking up in the middle of the night I had heard of, but thought it was occasional, not part of the daily rule.  So I'm curious what time compline ends, assuming you can go to bed immediately after.

[brandelynmarie]

I've heard somewhere between 8ish & 9ish at night....except the Trappistines. They go to bed around 7:30pm & wake up around 3am!

[Freedom]

For communities that do Matins at Midnight, or at least wake at that hour to do Matins.  The community that I have been corresponding with I believe does Compline at 8:00pm.  The Postulant is then relieved after, around 8:30 as they slowly prepare the Postulant/Novice to get used to their long hours.  Relieve them early and allow them to sleep in until they feel that they're ready to join in.

 

The Tradition of Matins being said during the first hour of a new day is quite poetic as our Lord deserves to be praised first thing before we do anything.

[Freedom]

Interesting question, Curiousing!   :popcorn:

[ChristinaTherese]

As far as food, Mother Francis said this in A Right to Be Merry:

 

Harshness is the thing farthest removed from the Rule of St. Clare, for she wrote as she lived--by the Gospel. Was the gentle Christ ever harsh? When little postulant Eleanor has hoed a hard row in the garden and seeks out her Mistress at 3:30 P.M. with the simple and tragic statement, "Dear Mistress, I'm starving", Eleanor will get something to eat or drink. Because she loved the Christ Who had compassion on the multitude and would not send them away hungry lest they faint in the way, St. Clare wrote in her rule concerning the fast: "The abbess may charitably dispense as regards the young and the weak." A young friar once awakened St. Francis in the night with the same cry: "I'm starving!" And the blessed Father rose and prepared food and ate with the weak one. He gave the young friar food out of time because he was a prudent superior. He ate with him because he was a loving father. Love alone can inspire us to such delicacy as that. It is the love of the God-Man Who condescended to eat with His disciples even after His resurrection, and Who let mean-souled men call Him "a glutton and a drinker of wine".

 

(Chapter 12: Wild and Sweet, pages 207-208 in my book)

[miserere55]

This is funny!  In my Order, compline was at 8pm.  So, most of the sisters could go to bed by 8:30 if they chose.  Lights had to be out at 10pm.  (The Reverend Mother checked the lights under the doors, if the light was still on past 10pm, we would get a knock on the door.  And then we would have to confess the fault at Chapter, in front of everyone)   Some of the Sisters might have work to finish for the next day before going to bed, and others did personal  things because it was our only free time.  The "caller" awakened everyone at 12:30 and Matins began at 12:45 and then there was a half hour of meditation after Matins.  Then we returned to bed, to be awakened again at 5:00am.  EVERY DAY, no exceptions.  (postulants only have to go for two days a week.)  But we had a night habit to wear to bed, so we just jumped up and went, didn't have to dress.  (The point was to be in your habit and ready, if Jesus came for you in the night).

 

Many monastic Orders, like the Carmelites, say Matins an hour or so after Compline and then they get a better period to sleep.  It makes more sense - but the body can get used to anything.  You'd be surprised what the human body can get used to.  Great topic Curiousing.!!

[maximillion]

Adaptations are quite often made and are necessary when one first enters, especially so in the more penitential orders and those that do the night Office. This is understood. Relaxations on food, rest, etc are common and one should never be afraid to say if one is hungry/tired etc.

 

However, I would agree that this is different to asking for things that suit one's proclivities/desires/talents/gifts.

 

I have said elsewhere that in spite of being an RN I never helped out in the Infirmary. Something that pleased me, but which I would have accepted had this been asked, of course.

An obedience is an obedience..........and even the early days of aspirancy/postulancy are not too early to demonstrate one's willingness to give up ALL for Him.

In my community, we were given weekly and daily obediences (jobs/chores). Examples were serving in refectory, or helping out in the kitchen during the morning work period. These were usually weekly assignments.

Daily ones might be about care taking the noviciate shrine for the day or running an errand for Mother. Our NM liked to give us care of the shrine (little alter in the noviciate) on Saints days she thought we had an affinity for, quite sweet of her.

 

I agree with miserare55 that it can be tough physical work at times, especially when combined with long hours of prayer and or fasting. But most communities introduce the postualnt/novice to the rigours on an incremental basis. We were not permitted the fast, for example, until clothed. Then we were not permitted the full penitential practices until we had demonstrated to Mother's satisfaction sufficient spiritual maturity to deal with these.

 

I think that expressing one's 'natural' antipathy to a given work/chore/activity would be poorly received.

'offer it up' would be the general attitude to not liking something.

[Gabriela]

For anyone shocked by the rising in the middle of the night thing, you should be aware that this is actually a more natural way to sleep. It's the reason babies start crying in the middle of the night and have to be taught to sleep through the night. Google "second sleep" to learn about our natural sleep cycles, or see this article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16964783

Edited November 22, 2013 by curiousing

[NotreDame]

 

Then we were not permitted the full penitential practices until we had demonstrated to Mother's satisfaction sufficient spiritual maturity to deal with these.

 

I think that expressing one's 'natural' antipathy to a given work/chore/activity would be poorly received.  'offer it up' would be the general attitude to not liking something.

 

 

For anyone shocked by the rising in the middle of the night thing, you should be aware that this is actually a more natural way to sleep. It's the reason babies start crying in the middle of the night and have to be taught to sleep through the night. Google "second sleep" to learn about our natural sleep cycles, or see this article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16964783

 

I think the maturity aspect is key (though I'm going to use it in a slightly different context.)  I've heard of a situation where a diabetic girl was frowned at for needing snacks (or whatever diabetic people do) and it resulted in her getting sick and being pretty miserable.  Obviously this isn't exactly an accomodation to someone with type 1 diabetes - it's a necessity and it was something that could have been easily discussed and understood by the two parties were they both mature enough, but they weren't and they didn't.

 

"I don't like to vaccuum, don't wanna", obviously not a very mature approach to work.  "I sprained my ankle and can barely walk, maybe I shouldn't shovel snow today", two mature people can work that out.  You can say this is true of any similar situation at work or school, but the vow of obedience/poverty in religious life does change things.

 

A lot of these issues you could know before entering, like the sleep (and I'm not arguing curiousing, but like you giving my experience for the benefit of younger readers...) Maybe some people sleep like that, but I assure you that my ancestors and I did not.  Someone like me who really needs 7-8 hours a sleep a night should be realistic (ie mature) and really consider this in their discernment process.   People have unique gifts and abilities.  Not every guy can go be a dominican and study like they do and not every woman can get by on that sleep schedule.  It's not a weakness to be objective about that, it's a strength.

 

So when I read from the OP say "I know many people are afraid to mention such things" - hey, don't be afraid.  Be brave and be prudent.  Don't assume anything.  Talk about important topics up front.  Ask questions.  It would almost be contrary to prudence not to do so.  Two mature parties are going to be able to work this stuff out.  If asking questions results in you not getting accepted, it's probably for the best.  If there are some questions/topics you find out about later, well that's what postulancy and novitiate are for.

[Gabriela]

A lot of these issues you could know before entering, like the sleep (and I'm not arguing curiousing, but like you giving my experience for the benefit of younger readers...) Maybe some people sleep like that, but I assure you that my ancestors and I did not.  Someone like me who really needs 7-8 hours a sleep a night should be realistic (ie mature) and really consider this in their discernment process.

 

Definitely we don't sleep that way now, so it seems unfathomable that people used to sleep that way. But it is actually the way our bodies are biologically programmed to sleep. So your ancestors most definitely did sleep that way! We didn't start sleeping straight through the night until industrialization, when the clock came to rule our lives and shift work in factories turned the night into "one shift". (Remember the biblical "second watch of the night"?) People still got 8 hours of sleep; they just got it in two "rounds", with a kind of quiet, restful, but waking period in between. So these days, it seems unnatural to us, and impossible that we would feel rested that way, but if we "re-learn" to sleep the way our bodies are designed to sleep, then we would once again be unable to sleep straight through the night. That's why cloisters let postulants skip this for a while, because they recognize that we're all taught to sleep straight through, so we have to re-learn the natural way. It's hard, and exhausting at first, but once one's got it, they feel just as great as they did sleeping through the night (or so I hear!).

 

I felt just like you, NotreDame, after I interviewed the PCC sisters and heard about their midnight rising, because I feel physically ill in the mornings if I haven't slept at least 7 hours. I thought, "Good Lord, I could never do that!" But then, providentially, not long after my interviews (and my ruling out a religious vocation on the sleep basis!), I ran across that BBC article while messing around on the web. I still thought, "No way...", so I researched it some more, and I became convinced that, given time to readjust, I actually could sleep that way and feel rested—because I'm human! ;-)