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Hmmm... winchester. somehow I don't think the perennial teaching of the Catholic Church "just serves to empower monsters to commit mass murder"

"Yes, it is worthy not only of love but of predilection that country (patrie) whose sacred name awakens in your mind the most cherished memories and makes quiver every fiber of your soul, that common country which has cradled you, to which you are bound by bonds of blood and by still nobler bonds of affection and tradition."
-Pope St. Pius X, April 19, 1909.

buy a copy of the French original here.


or you can read
Sapientiae Christianae for free

"if the natural law enjoins us to love devotedly and to defend the country in which we had birth, and in which we were brought up, so that every good citizen hesitates not to face death for his native land, very much more is it the urgent duty of Christians to be ever quickened by like feelings toward the Church."

--Pope Leo XIII

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But I've just never heard this idea pitched in exactly this way before. I can think of some Augustinian allusions to good citizenship based on the Gospel teaching of "render unto Caesar…" but yeh. Patriotism as virtue and moral obligation? It's stronger language than I've previously encountered and I'd love to read more about it.)


See my post above. Our duty to be patriotic flows from the natural law. It is not to be confused with nationalism or jingoism, which are in many ways antithetical to Christian tradition.
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Hmmm... winchester. somehow I don't think the perennial teaching of the Catholic Church "just serves to empower monsters to commit mass murder"

"Yes, it is worthy not only of love but of predilection that country (patrie) whose sacred name awakens in your mind the most cherished memories and makes quiver every fiber of your soul, that common country which has cradled you, to which you are bound by bonds of blood and by still nobler bonds of affection and tradition."
-Pope St. Pius X, April 19, 1909.

buy a copy of the French original here.


or you can read
Sapientiae Christianae for free

"if the natural law enjoins us to love devotedly and to defend the country in which we had birth, and in which we were brought up, so that every good citizen hesitates not to face death for his native land, very much more is it the urgent duty of Christians to be ever quickened by like feelings toward the Church."

--Pope Leo XIII

 

So no set square mileage then. 

 

I didn't think so.

 

Dresden. Hiroshima. Nagasaki. Japanese Internment Camps.

 

Patriotism is excrement.

 

Put your flag down long enough to read exactly what I asked. I believe I said "nebulous idea". And that's exactly what it is.

Edited by Winchester
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How big is a "fatherland"? Is it my hospital room? The street the hospital was on? My homestead? My neighborhood? The apartment complex I lived in? Perhaps my second home? The state I moved to later? The county? Does a "fatherland" cross political borders?

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How big is a "fatherland"? Is it my hospital room? The street the hospital was on? My homestead? My neighborhood? The apartment complex I lived in? Perhaps my second home? The state I moved to later? The county? Does a "fatherland" cross political borders?


pray to St. Pius X - ask him what he meant. Read that encyclical. If you don't know what your "fatherland" is that may be the initial problem. How can you fulfill your patriotic duty if you don't know that? Maybe first thing to do is to figure that out. Most people do not have to figure it out - it comes naturally. Which makes sense, since it is natural law. btw, ideology warps nature. Edited by Lilllabettt
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pray to St. Pius X - ask him what he meant. Read that encyclical. If you don't know what your "fatherland" is that may be the initial problem. How can you fulfill your patriotic duty if you don't know that? Maybe first thing to do is to figure that out. Most people do not have to figure it out - it comes naturally. Which makes sense, since it is natural law. btw, ideology warps nature.

That's interesting.  You and Winchester both posit with equal force and certainty that your positions are the one truly supported by natural law.  Hmmmmmmm

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Try looking at if from a different perspective and this whole patriotism might make more sense.

 

First, I think patriotism means loving your country/countrymen, but I'm not sure it has to include loving your government.   The pope might not agree with that statement on the whole (I don't know since I'm not going to read Lil'bet's links right away), but he'd probably agree that patriotism does not include love of a despotic government.

 

Second, loving something doesn't mean being a fan of that thing.  Parents love their kids, but they don't always support everything they do or even want them around all the time.  Thinking about "love" in that context when you read "love of country" or "love of countrymen" might help you get your head around.

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i pity the fool who believes what you said

Well, had he been able to go an afternoon without being on a narcotic or in a young ladie's pants he could have made a fine leader.  Assuming that along the way he attained some principles.

 

the boy was an empty vassal for his father's ambitions.  Not a particularly good guy, not super smart, nosubstantive  beliefs.  

 

Just another rich prick with a huge sense of entitlement.

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Semper Catholic

Ironic that our only catholic president was also the most godless. You know you're a bad guy when every three letter organization are all able to agree that you need to take a dirtnap.

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