Lifeteen Fosters Vocations

[Nihil Obstat]

Anyway, I am going to step out of this thread now. I will leave off with this:

 

Universae Ecclesiae:

8. The Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum constitutes an important expression of the Magisterium of the Roman Pontiff and of his munus of regulating and ordering the Church’s Sacred Liturgy.[3] The Motu Proprio manifests his solicitude as Vicar of Christ and Supreme Pastor of the Universal Church,[4] and has the aim of:

a. offering to all the faithful the Roman Liturgy in the Usus Antiquior, considered as a precious treasure to be preserved;

b. effectively guaranteeing and ensuring the use of the forma extraordinaria for all who ask for it, given that the use of the 1962 Roman Liturgy is a faculty generously granted for the good of the faithful and therefore is to be interpreted in a sense favourable to the faithful who are its principal addressees;

c. promoting reconciliation at the heart of the Church.

 

 

If something is "a precious treasure to be preserved" it follows that someone, somewhere, has the duty and obligation to preserve it. Therefore it is with the full blessing and encouragement of the Church that groups like the FSSP, SSJV, Juventutem, Una Voce, and many others promote and propagate the traditional Mass.

 

Edited December 5, 2013 by Nihil Obstat

[blazeingstar]

What do you have against the Extraordinary Form? You've been displaying an aggression and distaste for it all throughout this thread.

 

I don't have a distase for a Mass itself, but I find that most people who promote it have something distasteful about thelseves or have some kind of underhanded misson to make it standard.

[KnightofChrist]

I don't have a distase for a Mass itself, but I find that most people who promote it have something distasteful about thelseves or have some kind of underhanded misson to make it standard.

 

You remind me of a Catholic Cat I once knew. :kitten:

[Cojuanco]

I don't have a distase for a Mass itself, but I find that most people who promote it have something distasteful about thelseves or have some kind of underhanded misson to make it standard.

Not all do. Most just want it to be a meaningful choice. Usually the glad trads are the kinds who are also integrated into parish or diocesan life, instead of holed up in their own exclusive groups.

[dells_of_bittersweet]

Not all do. Most just want it to be a meaningful choice. Usually the glad trads are the kinds who are also integrated into parish or diocesan life, instead of holed up in their own exclusive groups.

 

This has been my only experience of people who call themselves traditionalists. As far as I can tell it is the most inwardly focused movement in the contemporary Catholic Church. In my area, the radical traditionalists do in fact form their own exclusive groups and you have to be holy enough and wise enough to know how much better the Latin mass is than the OF. 

 

Radical traditionalism seems to be diametrically opposed to evangelization. In my diocese, the churches with Lifeteen are out there drawing all kids of new people in. The radical traditionalists, on the other hand, seem to be self selecting into groups where all the people are "holy enough." 

[dells_of_bittersweet]

 
 
Juventutem is an international youth group founded in 2004 in fidelity to the Holy Father. It seeks to bring together young adult Catholics who are attached to the traditional forms of the Catholic worship.

 
 
In terms of the traditional Mass, not only is it certainly not a 'second-class citizen' of the Roman tradition, in fact Pope Benedict implied that we as a Church have an obligation to preserve and promote the traditional rite.

"What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful. It beooves all of us to preserve the riches which have developed in the Church’s faith and prayer, and to give them their proper place."

 

I have a huge problem with a youth group that is only for people who go to the EF. This implies a self-selection, that you have to be holy enough to be a member. This says to me "you aren't welcome here. Come back when you realize the errors of the OF."

 

We need youth groups that are open to sinners. A good parish youth group should be a source of evangelization where people who are lukewarm are drawn in and then set on fire. Ive seen countless teens deepen their faith through Lifeteen. On the other hand, I'm yet to see the EF cliques that run around in my diocese evangelize anyone. Any time I've been around them I've gotten the sense that I'm too liberal to be friends with them. 

[Cojuanco]

I've seen that mentality. But usually most in these parts are just as involved as the ones who go ti Lifeteen. Not all trads are rad trads, in fact, most are not. It's those idiots that give the rest of them an undeserved reputation.

Thing is, the EF spiituality is not for everyone. No spirituality is. But we ought to coexist peacefully in the Church, for in the end we profess the same creed.

[Nihil Obstat]

I have a huge problem with a youth group that is only for people who go to the EF. This implies a self-selection, that you have to be holy enough to be a member. This says to me "you aren't welcome here. Come back when you realize the errors of the OF."

 

We need youth groups that are open to sinners. A good parish youth group should be a source of evangelization where people who are lukewarm are drawn in and then set on fire. Ive seen countless teens deepen their faith through Lifeteen. On the other hand, I'm yet to see the EF cliques that run around in my diocese evangelize anyone. Any time I've been around them I've gotten the sense that I'm too liberal to be friends with them. 

I know I said I would not post in this thread anymore, but I think I need to respond to this.

 

You seem to be going from "we are a youth group attached to the traditional Mass", to "you can only join if you are super-duper holy like us, and if you do not hate the Pauline Mass then you are not welcome". This does not follow.

 

Not only is that a logical leap, I think it is (hopefully unintentionally) uncharitable. Besides that, it also strongly implies very nasty things about many other groups in the Church such as the FSSP, SSJV, and Una Voce.

 

Basically, where is the Christian charity in this attitude? Nobody is attacking you merely because of their devotion to the traditional Mass. By attending an FSSP Mass, I am not telling you that you are not holy and not welcome at Mass with me. I am not saying that I think I am more holy than you. I am not saying that you are 'doing Catholicism' wrong because you are not like me.

 

Please do explain, because I am hurt by the implications you are making.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Nihil Obstat

[Cojuanco]

Aye. The Church, thank God, is uniform in belief, not uniform in practices.

[dells_of_bittersweet]

I know I said I would not post in this thread anymore, but I think I need to respond to this.

 

You seem to be going from "we are a youth group attached to the traditional Mass", to "you can only join if you are super-duper holy like us, and if you do not hate the Pauline Mass then you are not welcome". This does not follow.

 

Not only is that a logical leap, I think it is (hopefully unintentionally) uncharitable. Besides that, it also strongly implies very nasty things about many other groups in the Church such as the FSSP, SSJV, and Una Voce.

 

Basically, where is the Christian charity in this attitude? Nobody is attacking you merely because of their devotion to the traditional Mass. By attending an FSSP Mass, I am not telling you that you are not holy and not welcome at Mass with me. I am not saying that I think I am more holy than you. I am not saying that you are 'doing Catholicism' wrong because you are not like me.

 

Please do explain, because I am hurt by the implications you are making.

 

I'm not saying anyone is doing this intentionally. I do feel personally hurt myself by how I've been treated by the rad trads around where I live though. 

 

I think that looking down on others who are not in your group is something that is bound to occur when Catholic are allowed or encourage to section themselves off into groups that only include people who think and act in exactly the same way. 

 

I am very concerned by the trend for a Diocese to offer a Latin Mass at one or two places in the diocese, and then everyone who likes the EF is encouraged to leave their usual parish and drive to the EF parish on Sundays. In my diocese, we have one church that is all FSSP, and maybe only one other legitimate place to get the EF. 

 

I don't think that "have it your way" is a good way for the Church to be operating. I think the Latin mass should be occasionally available at all churches, not a "designer Mass" that the enlightened leave their usual parishes to attend. The EF is encouraging people to break themselves off from the community at their parish. I do not think this is healthy. 

[Nihil Obstat]

I'm not saying anyone is doing this intentionally. I do feel personally hurt myself by how I've been treated by the rad trads around where I live though. 
 
I think that looking down on others who are not in your group is something that is bound to occur when Catholic are allowed or encourage to section themselves off into groups that only include people who think and act in exactly the same way. 
 
I am very concerned by the trend for a Diocese to offer a Latin Mass at one or two places in the diocese, and then everyone who likes the EF is encouraged to leave their usual parish and drive to the EF parish on Sundays. In my diocese, we have one church that is all FSSP, and maybe only one other legitimate place to get the EF. 
 
I don't think that "have it your way" is a good way for the Church to be operating. I think the Latin mass should be occasionally available at all churches, not a "designer Mass" that the enlightened leave their usual parishes to attend. The EF is encouraging people to break themselves off from the community at their parish. I do not think this is healthy.

I think that the traditional Mass should be offered everywhere, for everyone, every day. :idontknow:

You say "I think that looking down on others who are not in your group is something that is bound to occur[...]" Is this not what you are doing, in characterizing people who are attached to the traditional Mass as closed off, unwelcoming, sanctimonious?

Edited December 5, 2013 by Nihil Obstat

[Cojuanco]

Here, we have several places that have the EF. All are run by the Norbertines in the context of prexisticng parish life except for the one at San Juan, which is a unique case involving legal issues. They are just a part of regular diocesan life.

Dells, this is a problem of managing the diverse legiimate spiritualities in a diocese. This sort of problem is as old as the Chuch itself.

[Nihil Obstat]

We seem to handle it rather well with Eastern and Anglican Catholics within same geographical areas. We have Ukrainian and Maronite Catholic parishes, and an Ordinariate parish all within the same city. If the traditional Mass-goers like myself are somehow closing ourselves off, then should the same not be said for these other groups? Obviously not.

[dells_of_bittersweet]

We seem to handle it rather well with Eastern and Anglican Catholics within same geographical areas. We have Ukrainian and Maronite Catholic parishes, and an Ordinariate parish all within the same city. If the traditional Mass-goers like myself are somehow closing ourselves off, then should the same not be said for these other groups? Obviously not.

 

Hmm. I guess there should be some allowance for people choosing worship styles based on personal taste. 

 

I don't have a problem with someone liking the EF better than the OF. Its not my style, but I guess in fairness Eastern rites aren't my style either. 

 

The people that have upset me are those who say that the OF is "objectively disordered" and that I am less Catholic than they are for choosing the OF. 

 

I think there is a big difference between saying that you like a worship style better and saying that your worship style is objectively superior. 

[Cojuanco]

Oh, you mean those types? A lot of them, even the young ones, still think it's 1975 with weak bishops and heretical masses. Some are also not on the best relations with Rome. I just honestly pray for them, unless they keep doing it to other parishioners, in which case I would speak with Father.