Lifeteen Fosters Vocations

[Cojuanco]

Wait, the campus mninistry uses OCP, and while you can disagree about the music's artistic value, nowhere does it call for liturgical dance or clapping.

[Nihil Obstat]

 

Is Lifeteen more prone to abuse than other programs?  Well, considering that there are no other real programs for Catholic youth ministry its really hard to say.  There's Dead Theologians Society and the NFCYM  but NFCYM seems to be more of an issue and more into OCP (Which i believe is the root of many bad masses)

Juventutem.

[blazeingstar]

Juventutem.

 

Thats not a youth group, its a club based around the EF mass, which, as nice as it is still considered the extrodinary form and not what should ordinarly occur.

[Nihil Obstat]

Are we splitting hairs here?

In fact they describe themselves as youth groups too. Well, Juventutem as a whole is a federation of youth groups.

 

 

I take exception to the idea that the traditional Mass is "not what should ordinarily occur." That is simply false.

[blazeingstar]

 

Are we splitting hairs here?

In fact they describe themselves as youth groups too. Well, Juventutem as a whole is a federation of youth groups.

 

 

I take exception to the idea that the traditional Mass is "not what should ordinarily occur." That is simply false.

 

 

its the extrodinary form...by definition it is not normitive.

 

And no, not splitting hairs.  A group that praises the extroidnary form of the mass and appeals to youth is not a youth group, but rather a club that focusus on the extrodinary form of the Mass.  One could have this group and still have the Lifenights (as the music during Mass is a part, but not wholly inclusive of the mission).   Nothing in Lifeteen states the Mass must be Ordinary form.  Whereas this group would not attend an Ordinary form...which to me is a dangerous line of thinking.

[KnightofChrist]

Not at any lifeteen I know of and certinally if any dancing was done and the LT HQ found out about it they'd yank the lisence quicker than you could say "praise the lord". 

 

As far as clapping...thats not an Lifeteen/Teen Mass problem, thats an EF problem and a modern problem in general (ever been to a graduation ceremony lately, its a nightmare, no matter how much you tell people not to clap they do it anyway)

 

Clapping seems to be a much bigger problem in the OF than EF. I've never heard anything close to clapping in the EF, while I've heard it done many times in the OF. I've also, until now, never heard of it being a problem in the EF. But I have heard of it being a big problem in the OF.

[KnightofChrist]

its the extrodinary form...by definition it is not normitive.

 

And no, not splitting hairs.  A group that praises the extroidnary form of the mass and appeals to youth is not a youth group, but rather a club that focusus on the extrodinary form of the Mass.  One could have this group and still have the Lifenights (as the music during Mass is a part, but not wholly inclusive of the mission).   Nothing in Lifeteen states the Mass must be Ordinary form.  Whereas this group would not attend an Ordinary form...which to me is a dangerous line of thinking.

 

It seems as if you are using the terms "extraordinary" and "ordinary" like they should be used for extraordinary and ordinary ministers. In those senses of the terms extraordinary should be rare and few, and the ordinary should be the norm and most common. But this is not true for the Extraordinary Form of the Mass.

[dells_of_bittersweet]

Again its probaly not LT at all but a very  non following the rules church.  Blaming Lifeteen for such things, especally when LT has spoken out agaist it, is like blaming air horn makers for people's bad behavior at commencement ceremonies.  Lifeteen as a whole works against this sort of nonsense but it cannot be everywhere.  It can also be that the liscense was pulled but the church is calling it "lifeteen" still.

 

Is Lifeteen more prone to abuse than other programs?  Well, considering that there are no other real programs for Catholic youth ministry its really hard to say.  There's Dead Theologians Society and the NFCYM  but NFCYM seems to be more of an issue and more into OCP (Which i believe is the root of many bad masses)

 

 

This is Gospel truth. In my experience Oregon Catholic Press prints music that lacks a sense of reverence. Protestant publishers like worshiptogether.com and SixSteps somehow are much better at this even though they dont have the Eucharist. 

 

On a slightly different point, look at the lyrics for any OCP communion song. They are extremely inwardly focused and wishy-washy on the real presence. They all have words to the effect of "eat this bread" or "we are Christ's body" (not Christ himself!). 

[Nihil Obstat]

its the extrodinary form...by definition it is not normitive.

 

And no, not splitting hairs.  A group that praises the extroidnary form of the mass and appeals to youth is not a youth group, but rather a club that focusus on the extrodinary form of the Mass.  One could have this group and still have the Lifenights (as the music during Mass is a part, but not wholly inclusive of the mission).   Nothing in Lifeteen states the Mass must be Ordinary form.  Whereas this group would not attend an Ordinary form...which to me is a dangerous line of thinking.

Extraordinary versus Ordinary is simply a canonical phrase with establishes the Pauline Mass as standard. It implies nothing about the traditional Mass being less than desirable in a regular sense. Summorum Pontificum flatly contradicts your understanding of the subject.

 

In terms of Juventutem... individual groups describe themselves as youth groups. Am I wrong?

 

 

 

Last I checked, "youth group" was not a particularly legally rigorous designation.

[blazeingstar]

Extraordinary versus Ordinary is simply a canonical phrase with establishes the Pauline Mass as standard. It implies nothing about the traditional Mass being less than desirable in a regular sense. Summorum Pontificum flatly contradicts your understanding of the subject.

 

In terms of Juventutem... individual groups describe themselves as youth groups. Am I wrong?

 

 

Last I checked, "youth group" was not a particularly legally rigorous designation.

 

They seem to be a group of youth rather than a youth group.  I'm not speaking legalisically, but practically.

 

I'm not saying it's less desireable.  Just that it is not the currently preferred form of Mass for the church.

[Nihil Obstat]

They seem to be a group of youth rather than a youth group.  I'm not speaking legalisically, but practically.

 

I'm not saying it's less desireable.  Just that it is not the currently preferred form of Mass for the church.

Again, are we splitting hairs here? I see no practical difference between a group of youth and a youth group, especially when your so-called groups of youth are calling themselves youth groups. Unless of course you are formulating a personal definition of "youth group" that is intended specifically to exclude Juventutem on arbitrary grounds.

 

Summorum Pontificum gives every priest the right to say the traditional Mass when he sees fit, needing no permission from anybody. I see no indication here of lesser preference.

[blazeingstar]

Again, are we splitting hairs here? I see no practical difference between a group of youth and a youth group, especially when your so-called groups of youth are calling themselves youth groups. Unless of course you are formulating a personal definition of "youth group" that is intended specifically to exclude Juventutem on arbitrary grounds.

 

Summorum Pontificum gives every priest the right to say the traditional Mass when he sees fit, needing no permission from anybody. I see no indication here of lesser preference.

 

Fine.  If you think it's splitting hairs to not place it in the same ministerial category as Lifeteen then so be it.  I do not think it serves the youth in the same way as youth group is understood to in the venacular.  I see it more of a "eliete" club much the same way you have chess club or flag football.  Youth group, to me indacates something that is religious (or secular) and nature and focuses on a wide variety of subjects within their chosen field.  Extrodinary form is a single subject.  But hey, if you want to call it a "youth group" then do so.

 

Regardless if every priest has a "right" to do something it dosn't make it normitive.  Ordinary Form is just that, ordinary.  If the Church didn't want it to be the typical way of doing things than it'd becalled the extrodinary form.  Oh wait, extrodinary form is already taken by another mass.

Edited December 5, 2013 by blazeingstar

[Nihil Obstat]

Fine.  If you think it's splitting hairs to not place it in the same ministerial category as Lifeteen then so be it.  I do not think it serves the youth in the same way as youth group is understood to in the venacular.  I see it more of a "eliete" club much the same way you have chess club or flag football.  Youth group, to me indacates something that is religious (or secular) and nature and focuses on a wide variety of subjects within their chosen field.  Extrodinary form is a single subject.  But hey, if you want to call it a "youth group" then do so.
 
Regardless if every priest has a "right" to do something it dosn't make it normitive.  Ordinary Form is just that, ordinary.  If the Church didn't want it to be the typical way of doing things than it'd becalled the extrodinary form.  Oh wait, extrodinary form is already taken by another mass.

 
 
Here is Juventutem Boston's Mission Statement. I think it speaks for itself.

Juventutem is an international youth group founded in 2004 in fidelity to the Holy Father. It seeks to bring together young adult Catholics who are attached to the traditional forms of the Catholic worship.
In 2012, wishing to promote the sanctification of youth by means of the Roman traditions of the Catholic Church, faithful to the Church’s teaching and her authorities, and in spiritual union with those young people throughout the world who share our aspirations, the founding members of Juventutem Boston came together to incorporate themselves under the International Federation Juventutem.
The name “Juventutem” (the accusative of the Latin word for “youth”) is a reference to the prayers at the foot of the altar in the Roman Missal revised by the Blessed Pope John XXIII in 1962. “Youth” as intended by Juventutem is not in essence a matter of age, but rather of familiarity with the grace of God.
Telling of a dream which has become famous, the patron saint of Catholic youth, St John Bosco, described as “three whitenesses” the three fundamental elements of help to Christians: the Holy Eucharist, the Blessed Virgin, and the Holy Father. The young members of Juventutem profess a great love for these “three whitenesses.”
Juventutem Boston also dedicates itself to an intercessory apostolate, praying with and for our Bishops and Priests in union with His Holiness Pope Francis. We encourage you to get involved.
 
 
In terms of the traditional Mass, not only is it certainly not a 'second-class citizen' of the Roman tradition, in fact Pope Benedict implied that we as a Church have an obligation to preserve and promote the traditional rite.

"What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful. It beooves all of us to preserve the riches which have developed in the Church’s faith and prayer, and to give them their proper place."

[PhuturePriest]

Fine. If you think it's splitting hairs to not place it in the same ministerial category as Lifeteen then so be it. I do not think it serves the youth in the same way as youth group is understood to in the venacular. I see it more of a "eliete" club much the same way you have chess club or flag football. Youth group, to me indacates something that is religious (or secular) and nature and focuses on a wide variety of subjects within their chosen field. Extrodinary form is a single subject. But hey, if you want to call it a "youth group" then do so.

Regardless if every priest has a "right" to do something it dosn't make it normitive. Ordinary Form is just that, ordinary. If the Church didn't want it to be the typical way of doing things than it'd becalled the extrodinary form. Oh wait, extrodinary form is already taken by another mass.

What do you have against the Extraordinary Form? You've been displaying an aggression and distaste for it all throughout this thread.

[blazeingstar]

 
 
Here is Juventutem Boston's Mission Statement. I think it speaks for itself.

Juventutem is an international youth group founded in 2004 in fidelity to the Holy Father. It seeks to bring together young adult Catholics who are attached to the traditional forms of the Catholic worship.
In 2012, wishing to promote the sanctification of youth by means of the Roman traditions of the Catholic Church, faithful to the Church’s teaching and her authorities, and in spiritual union with those young people throughout the world who share our aspirations, the founding members of Juventutem Boston came together to incorporate themselves under the International Federation Juventutem.
The name “Juventutem” (the accusative of the Latin word for “youth”) is a reference to the prayers at the foot of the altar in the Roman Missal revised by the Blessed Pope John XXIII in 1962. “Youth” as intended by Juventutem is not in essence a matter of age, but rather of familiarity with the grace of God.
Telling of a dream which has become famous, the patron saint of Catholic youth, St John Bosco, described as “three whitenesses” the three fundamental elements of help to Christians: the Holy Eucharist, the Blessed Virgin, and the Holy Father. The young members of Juventutem profess a great love for these “three whitenesses.”
Juventutem Boston also dedicates itself to an intercessory apostolate, praying with and for our Bishops and Priests in union with His Holiness Pope Francis. We encourage you to get involved.
 
 
In terms of the traditional Mass, not only is it certainly not a 'second-class citizen' of the Roman tradition, in fact Pope Benedict implied that we as a Church have an obligation to preserve and promote the traditional rite.

"What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful. It beooves all of us to preserve the riches which have developed in the Church’s faith and prayer, and to give them their proper place."

 

Still not seeing it in the tranditional "youth group" sense.  But you can believe whatever you want.

 

That and your instance that it is good and needs a place does not at all change the fact it is not considered norminative and should not be perpeuted as such.