Lifeteen Fosters Vocations

[Nihil Obstat]

Speaking of chant, IMO it is wrong and misleading to treat chant as merely being a musical choice. It is not - it is more than music. It is an integral aspect of the Roman Rite.

Chant is one choice among many. It is on a far different level from praise and worship, even more traditional hymnody. It is different because it is the music that most properly belongs to our Rite. Praise and worship, anykind of hymnody, anything else, (even polyphony and orchestral settings, although these are dignified and nice on special occasions) are merely guests in the Roman Rite. 

[PhuturePriest]

From what I can tell the church teaches that chant is the preferred method for mass... but nobody does it:

 

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/music_and_instruments.htm

 

To me this is like where eucharistic ministers were allowed in cases of need, but now they are sometimes the only ones distributing communion.  Altar girls are another example of this: an exception in case of need, become the norm.

 

Not an expert here, but I think if masses were done according to what the church teaches is the preferred method, they'd all be quite traditional.  What happens is that people take advantage of all the loopholes until loopholes become the norm. 

 

On a separate note... I don't know why someone at a catholic event would think Signed, Sealed, Delivered is appropriate for mass.  That's very sad and dissapointing.

 

The song isn't what got me: What got me were the dancers (This was the closing hymn, so it wasn't during the Liturgy). Their dance moves are still etched into my mind, and I could do the dance to the music right now. Throughout the Mass, there was a lot of applause, clapping to the music, and all sorts of liturgical hell. I literally put my hoodie over my head and leaned over on my knees, because I couldn't take watching it anymore. During one of these dreaded excursions, I leaned over to the guy next to me in my group and whispered "Pope Benedict is sitting on a chair in his room right now with a book in his hand, weeping."

[dells_of_bittersweet]

Yes, unfortunately, he was the emcee, and he was quite... interesting in his thoughts on the matter of theology.

 

That's very interesting. I'm very conflicted on the topic of worship music at Mass. My gut reaction is to say "Chant is what's proper.", but at the same time, I haven't read anything official saying that only chant should be done and worship music is frowned upon.

 

However, I would take a Matt Maher song over "Signed Sealed Delivered", which is what was played at the Mass at NCYC.

 

Chant is the ideal and the standard on which other styles are judged. The church, however, admits other styles and sees them as useful for reaching diverse cultures. 

 

To the idea that only chant is allowed, church documents say quite the contrary. The highest level of authority on this matter is the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, from Vatican II (http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html). Most notably, while giving chant the pride of place, it allows the use of other forms of music and allows the adaptations of local forms of music into the liturgy. Also, it allows the local Episcopal conference to approve or disapprove forms of instrumentation, and as I will show later, the USCCB has ruled that guitars may be admitted to the liturgy. Here are some highlights. 

 

VI SACRED MUSIC

112. The musical tradition of the universal Church is a treasure of inestimable value, greater even than that of any other art. The main reason for this pre-eminence is that, as sacred song united to the words, it forms a necessary or integral part of the solemn liturgy.

Holy Scripture, indeed, has bestowed praise upon sacred song [42], and the same may be said of the fathers of the Church and of the Roman pontiffs who in recent times, led by St. Pius X, have explained more precisely the ministerial function supplied by sacred music in the service of the Lord.

Therefore sacred music is to be considered the more holy in proportion as it is more closely connected with the liturgical action, whether it adds delight to prayer, fosters unity of minds, or confers greater solemnity upon the sacred rites. But the Church approves of all forms of true art having the needed qualities, and admits them into divine worship.

Accordingly, the sacred Council, keeping to the norms and precepts of ecclesiastical tradition and discipline, and having regard to the purpose of sacred music, which is the glory of God and the sanctification of the faithful, decrees as follows.

113. Liturgical worship is given a more noble form when the divine offices are celebrated solemnly in song, with the assistance of sacred ministers and the active participation of the people.

As regards the language to be used, the provisions of Art. 36 are to be observed; for the Mass, Art. 54; for the sacraments, Art. 63; for the divine office. Art. 101.

114. The treasure of sacred music is to be preserved and fostered with great care. Choirs must be diligently promoted, especially in cathedral churches; but bishops and other pastors of souls must be at pains to ensure that, whenever the sacred action is to be celebrated with song, the whole body of the faithful may be able to contribute that active participation which is rightly theirs, as laid down in Art. 28 and 30.

115. Great importance is to be attached to the teaching and practice of music in seminaries, in the novitiates and houses of study of religious of both sexes, and also in other Catholic institutions and schools. To impart this instruction, teachers are to be carefully trained and put in charge of the teaching of sacred music.

It is desirable also to found higher institutes of sacred music whenever this can be done.

Composers and singers, especially boys, must also be given a genuine liturgical training.

116. The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.

But other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations, so long as they accord with the spirit of the liturgical action, as laid down in Art. 30.

117. The typical edition of the books of Gregorian chant is to be completed; and a more critical edition is to be prepared of those books already published since the restoration by St. Pius X.

It is desirable also that an edition be prepared containing simpler melodies, for use in small churches.

118. Religious singing by the people is to be intelligently fostered so that in devotions and sacred exercises, as also during liturgical services, the voices of the faithful may ring out according to the norms and requirements of the rubrics.

119. In certain parts of the world, especially mission lands, there are peoples who have their own musical traditions, and these play a great part in their religious and social life. For this reason due importance is to be attached to their music, and a suitable place is to be given to it, not only in forming their attitude toward religion, but also in adapting worship to their native genius, as indicated in Art. 39 and 40.

Therefore, when missionaries are being given training in music, every effort should be made to see that they become competent in promoting the traditional music of these peoples, both in schools and in sacred services, as far as may be practicable.

120. In the Latin Church the pipe organ is to be held in high esteem, for it is the traditional musical instrument which adds a wonderful splendor to the Church's ceremonies and powerfully lifts up man's mind to God and to higher things.

But other instruments also may be admitted for use in divine worship, with the knowledge and consent of the competent territorial authority, as laid down in Art. 22, 52, 37, and 40. This may be done, however, only on condition that the instruments are suitable, or can be made suitable, for sacred use, accord with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful.

121. Composers, filled with the Christian spirit, should feel that their vocation is to cultivate sacred music and increase its store of treasures.

Let them produce compositions which have the qualities proper to genuine sacred music, not confining themselves to works which can be sung only by large choirs, but providing also for the needs of small choirs and for the active participation of the entire assembly of the faithful.

The texts intended to be sung must always be in conformity with Catholic doctrine; indeed they should be drawn chiefly from holy scripture and from liturgical sources.

 

On another note:

Number 41 in the GIRM: "41. The main place should be given, all things being equal, to Gregorian chant, as being proper to the Roman Liturgy. Other kinds of sacred music, in particular polyphony, are in no way excluded, provided that they correspond to the spirit of the liturgical action and that they foster the participation of all the faithful.[50]"

 

:

[NotreDame]

 

In terms of indistinguishable from a Protestant service, your argument is a slippery slope. Almost everything is considered an old hymn is of Protestant origin (i.e. How Great Thou Art). A Mass with all old hymns would be just as much like a Protestant service as a bunch of worship songs would be (and possibly less, due to the fact that Matt Maher and Audrey Assad are Catholic). What would distinguish the music in either case, either the old hymns or the worship, would be the reverence with which they are played. 

 

On a slightly different note, let's frame this as a question. "What do teens really want?" As someone who works A LOT with providing music to teens and young adults, and as a college student myself, I have a reasonably good feel for this. 

 

First, there is a lot of sympathy for chant. In my diocese, chant isn't much of an option outside of the EF Mass. When I was doing Mass for a retreat I spontaneously decided to do the Angus Dei in Latin and everyone got excited. I think they want more of it. 

 

Next, teens are very much turned off by mediocrity and amateurism. Whatever music gets picked, the choir needs to be good at it. The last time I went to an EF mass, the schola was in my opinion pitifully bad. I spent the whole Mass noticing the notes they were missing. It left a bad taste in my mouth that makes me never want to listen to a schola ever again. Most teens would prefer to have really well done music from the 70s than a bad to average schola or organist who plays old hymns. Bottom line-being good at what you do is a lot more important than what you choose to do in the first place. 

 

Finally, you seem to be writing off the possibility that teens might really like worship music. They do! Everyone I know absolutely loves it and wants more of it. At a recent retreat I played all old hymns on the Friday Mass, and all worship music on the Saturday Mass. While both were well received, people clearly liked the worship music better than the old hymns. 

 

From personal experience, chant is an option, but I avoid it since its badly done in my diocese. I occasionally go to another church that plays worship music, instead of my own, which still does a lot of 70s stuff. I would really like to see chant done well and mixed into the liturgy. I would really not like to see chant be the only thing that is used. Just my personal opinion, but I think our society is too accustomed with music that has a beat for chant and chant alone to ever be the right way to go. I think music styles that mimic chant but that stay in 4/4 time, such as Taize or a handful of slower worship songs, are a good compromise.  

 

Thanks for the reply...

 

It was well known to me that "How Great Thou Art" is protestant.  That's not what people mean when they talk about traditional catholic music.  If you can ever get your hands on an Adoremus hymnal check it out.  Lots of traditional catholic music.

 

And I dont' think chant or latin hyms are a great option only if you've been doing them your whole life.  I grew up Ukranian Rite (now there is a church that sings) and only started hearing traditional latin hyms over the last few years, but love them.  (I mean, how is Salve Regina not sung at every mass? Or the Ave Maria? They are gorgeous hyms.)  The problem, as I mentioned to FP, and as you alluded to is that so few people know the old hymns or the right tones.  It all got lost after vatican II, but it feels like after summorum pontificum it is making a comeback.

 

Meanwhile, over in the Ukranian church we've been singing the same hymns in old slavonic for 1000 years and there is a good chance they were sung in greek(?) in constantinople hundreds of years before that.  Usually there are loads of people singing the hymns, responses (all chanted), prayers, etc.  Many more than sing at your average roman rite mass.  Tchaikovsky loved the music so much he even scored the (indistinguishable) orthodox version of the liturgy using the existing traditional melodies:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liturgy_of_St._John_Chrysostom_%28Tchaikovsky%29

 

Which is interesting, because no instruments are used in Eastern Rite Ruthenian/Byzantine or Ukranian liturgies and it's not clear to me that they would be allowed.  Also interesting is how upset the orthodox church was.  The East takes it's liturgical music seriously and thought it would be profane to have it played by an orchestra outside of the liturgical setting. 

Edited November 29, 2013 by NotreDame

[dells_of_bittersweet]

I missed this in my last post. This is the current USCCB music guideline. http://www.evansville-diocese.org/worship/SingToTheLord.pdf

[NotreDame]

The song isn't what got me: What got me were the dancers (This was the closing hymn, so it wasn't during the Liturgy). Their dance moves are still etched into my mind, and I could do the dance to the music right now. Throughout the Mass, there was a lot of applause, clapping to the music, and all sorts of liturgical hell. I literally put my hoodie over my head and leaned over on my knees, because I couldn't take watching it anymore. During one of these dreaded excursions, I leaned over to the guy next to me in my group and whispered "Pope Benedict is sitting on a chair in his room right now with a book in his hand, weeping."

 

Wait... WHAT?!?!?!?! 

[PhuturePriest]

Wait... WHAT?!?!?!?! 

 

As I said, it was the closing hymn, so it was after the final blessing.

[the171]

keep in mind, NCYC is not run by Lifeteen. Lifeteen attends, but NCYC is run by NCYFM.

[PhuturePriest]

keep in mind, NCYC is not run by Lifeteen. Lifeteen attends, but NCYC is run by NCYFM.

 

Of course. I hope I didn't imply this was at all Lifeteen's fault.

[Cojuanco]

Look, I've seen one instance of liturgical dance that wasn't somehow grossly inappropriate. One. All the others looked like the Christ the King skit Colbert has.

That said, never seen anything wacky from the local Lifeteen. When they teamed up wuth the campus ministry to put on adoration, there was music, yes, but all Eucharist centered, and usually variations on classics (now I know there is an awesome way to play O Salutaris Hostia on a guitar). I know there is a charismatic influence with some of them, but there were no tongues, no jumping around, just, you know, a bunch of twentysomethings praying or singing Tantum Ergo.

[blazeingstar]

Look, I've seen one instance of liturgical dance that wasn't somehow grossly inappropriate. One. All the others looked like the Christ the King skit Colbert has.

That said, never seen anything wacky from the local Lifeteen. When they teamed up wuth the campus ministry to put on adoration, there was music, yes, but all Eucharist centered, and usually variations on classics (now I know there is an amesome way to play O Salutaris Hostia on a guitar). I know there is a charismatic influence with some of them, but there were no tongues, no jumping around, just, you know, a bunch of twentysomethings praying or singing Tantum Ergo.

 

Lifeteen has been pretty good in ensuring liturgy, music, adoration and all that are within the ruberics of Mass and that their teachings are approved by the vatican and the USSCB.  Each parish is lisenced to serve under the name Lifeteen.

 

That said, it has often been adopted by parishes that are not following the rules set out by the vatican and USSCB and continue to do so.  They also deliberatly ignore the clear directives set about in lifeteen.  I know that one year, in the mid 2000's after corrections were made Lifeteen pulled its lisence from 8 parishes and put 6 more on probation for violating the rules about teens on the alter.  This was a forceable pulling---others voulenterally gave up their lisences as they felt Lifeteen was being too "controlling" for wanting to be "exacting and litigious" about the liturgy.

 

On a positive note, around 10 parishes responded positivily and updated their policies for all Masses including Daily Mass, healing Masses and children's masses where going on the alter was permitted and encouraged and now was not....which had nothing to do with Lifeteen but encouraged the parish to get back into a spirit of obedience.

[CrossCuT]

Wait... WHAT?!?!?!?! 

 

Oh  yeah thats pretty normal in my experience. People dance and clap all the time.

[blazeingstar]

Oh  yeah thats pretty normal in my experience. People dance and clap all the time.

 

Not at any lifeteen I know of and certinally if any dancing was done and the LT HQ found out about it they'd yank the lisence quicker than you could say "praise the lord". 

 

As far as clapping...thats not an Lifeteen/Teen Mass problem, thats an EF problem and a modern problem in general (ever been to a graduation ceremony lately, its a nightmare, no matter how much you tell people not to clap they do it anyway)

[CrossCuT]

Ah, well the dancing and clapping is just what Ive experienced. 

[blazeingstar]

Ah, well the dancing and clapping is just what Ive experienced. 

 

Again its probaly not LT at all but a very  non following the rules church.  Blaming Lifeteen for such things, especally when LT has spoken out agaist it, is like blaming air horn makers for people's bad behavior at commencement ceremonies.  Lifeteen as a whole works against this sort of nonsense but it cannot be everywhere.  It can also be that the liscense was pulled but the church is calling it "lifeteen" still.

 

Is Lifeteen more prone to abuse than other programs?  Well, considering that there are no other real programs for Catholic youth ministry its really hard to say.  There's Dead Theologians Society and the NFCYM  but NFCYM seems to be more of an issue and more into OCP (Which i believe is the root of many bad masses)

Edited December 5, 2013 by blazeingstar