Lifeteen Fosters Vocations

[dells_of_bittersweet]

Late in high school I participated in Saturday evening masses through a program called NET Ministries.

It was all completely charismatic; christian rock band playing, mass held in a gymnasium, people clapping and dancing etc.

 

I went because I was interested in meeting boys and the high energy was of the mass was fun. 

Although the whole time I knew that all my emotion was not coming from the mass, it was from the music. But I didnt care.

 

I also went to a weekend summer retreat with them as well and THIS was when I got irritated. During adoration, they were playing all the sobby, sad music to  help you "focus" on Jesus and then even invited everyone up to touch the monstrance. I felt this was very inappropriate so I didnt go.

 

Ive also gone to a few of the Steubenville North conferences and I noticed the same thing. All the sad, sobby music playing during adoration and people falling over crying, "speaking in tongues" and blah blah. If you put the same group of people in a quiet chapel for adoration, I have a suspicion that you would get a very different result.

 

 

But I dont want to bash all the teen, rock masses...my brother volunteered with NET Ministries for a year and he has grown to really appreciate what they do.

I know its good for people who dont have a deep rooted faith; it can serve to inspire them.

Its just not for me.

 

:|

 

Again, I dont want to bash this type of mass, I just wanted to share my experience. Maybe I wasnt open enough I dunno. I grew up in a very traditional church that had high latin masses and full orchestral choirs. So it was different for me.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Maybe my whole post doesnt belong...so Ill add that this atmosphere did not inspire a vocation for me to become a nun or anything....maybe it inspired me to have a married vocation? lol i dunno

 

So here is my perspective on this. There are some people, such as you, that prefer to encounter God from purely the approach of reason. That's perfectly legitimate. 

 

However, reason and emotion are both gifts from God. Experiencing God, being able to feel His presence, healing, and love, is equally valid. When people have these profound feelings, its perfectly natural to cry, or otherwise express the emotions God has given you. 

 

That is not to say that God is to be reduced to an emotion or that He isn't present if you can't feel him.

[NotreDame]

So, my question is this... Where is all of this in the lives of the saints?  I haven't read about any saints speaking in tongues or any of this stuff charismatics do.  Am I reading the wrong books?

[NotreDame]

BTW - I don't want to be seen as attacking charismatics here on this thread.  The whole Stuebenville crowd is having a great impact on the US church generally.  I'm just genuinely curious because I've had zero contact.  I'm enjoying reading the posts thus far.

[dells_of_bittersweet]

I've never really liked Matt Maher, but I've also never really liked most Christian music. It always felt too "nice" and lacking in genuine emotion, or originality ("Yes, Jesus is King, yes, He saves us...your lyrics are exactly like the other hundred Christian artists out there").  So I was drawn more toward stuff like some of Brandon Heath and Skillet and Five Iron Frenzy and old 90s stuff like DC Talk and Newsboys and Switchfoot. 

Really, I think kids like what they're going to like, and they're only going to like stuff that they've been exposed to. I like some 90s Christian rock not because I was a teenager in the 90s, but because that's what my youth minister had on hand.  If kids have only been taught hymns from a particular genre, how can we expect them to appreciate anything different?  Hence, why I think exclusive "teen" centered masses are dangerous. Used on occasion, especially if you're teaching them about the liturgy (how to plan it, what the parts are, how to be a good liturgical minister, etc), they can be a great supplement to a great program. But if they fully replace attendance at the "normal" community liturgy...you're going to get kids who don't know what to do when they have to start going to "normal" mass, and they'll stop going. 

 

I agree completely that much of what the Christian music industry has turned out has been second rate, but it is getting much better. I can't believe you don't like Matt Maher! How much of his stuff have you listened to? His music is in my mind the epitome of what everyone else should be doing but isn't. Have you listened to his CD Alive Again? The title track mostly contains lyrics penned by St. Augustine, and the other hit on there, Christ Is Risen, contains material from a St. John Chrysostom sermon. In terms of emotion, I had people crying when I played his song You Were On The Cross during a reenactment of the Passion at my church.

 

But I digress. The bigger philosophical question is why do people like what they like, and to what degree should we give it to them. 

 

I agree that people tend to like what they are exposed to. But there are some logical limits. If you grew up totally in isolation from the current culture, you would probably eventually learn to like whatever your church plays already. However, outside of some crazy traditionalist groups that try to seal themselves off from the world, no one actually does live in isolation from the culture. Our culture as a whole informs our musical tastes, and there are generational shifts in taste. 

 

There are plenty of good old songs. While these may help committed Christians pray, we now live in a post-Christian world where we need to be evangelizing. Inwardly focused music doesn't attract new followers. We need to take what good in the culture and then transform it into something that glorifies God. In the 60s this was the St. Louis Jesuits, who very much wrote in a baby boomer style. That doesn't appeal much to young people any more, but the worship genre does. 

 

I too have a problem with the youth mass. We are one body in Christ and one critical aspect of the Mass is that we are assembling together as one body. So I don't think we should be segmenting ourselves off. I don't think we should have Masses with music that only young people could relate to, or watered down sermons that are only addressed to the teens. In fact, teens hate being talked down to, and I think such an approach would fail miserably. 

 

Nevertheless, I think having a Mass for all people but that is intentionally appealing to teens is highly valuable. That is how the Lifeteen Mass in our diocese is done. A vast majority of the people there are not teenagers. However, they play worship music in a way that all ages can relate to it. 

[Gabriela]

What is Lifeteen? Just some youth group thing?

[blazeingstar]

 

 

I too have a problem with the youth mass. We are one body in Christ and one critical aspect of the Mass is that we are assembling together as one body. So I don't think we should be segmenting ourselves off. I don't think we should have Masses with music that only young people could relate to, or watered down sermons that are only addressed to the teens. In fact, teens hate being talked down to, and I think such an approach would fail miserably. 

 

 

 

I disagree...I'd rather go to a teen mass and have a priest address teen problems in the homily then hear one more darmed rant about how to get your kids (or grandkids, really) to go back to Mass.  Sometimes, especially for the point of a homily segmenting is good.

[Basilisa Marie]

What is Lifeteen? Just some youth group thing?

 

Lifeteen is a particular "brand" of a packaged, ready-made youth ministry program.  Sometimes it works out very well, sometimes it doesn't.  It's controversial because a lot of people didn't implement it in a way that fostered good liturgy, catechesis, and the spiritual life. But others did, and still do.  Like most things when it comes to ministry, it depends on how people implement it in their own particular community. 

[Basilisa Marie]

 

I too have a problem with the youth mass. We are one body in Christ and one critical aspect of the Mass is that we are assembling together as one body. So I don't think we should be segmenting ourselves off. I don't think we should have Masses with music that only young people could relate to, or watered down sermons that are only addressed to the teens. In fact, teens hate being talked down to, and I think such an approach would fail miserably. 

 

I disagree...I'd rather go to a teen mass and have a priest address teen problems in the homily then hear one more darmed rant about how to get your kids (or grandkids, really) to go back to Mass.  Sometimes, especially for the point of a homily segmenting is good.

 

See that's the thing.  I loved my college masses because the homilies were usually pretty good, and definitely directed at us college students.  It's no different than when we went to the seminary daily mass and the homilies were particularly addressed towards the seminarians.  It can be a great tool, if done well.  It's really an art, trying to figure out how to talk "at" a particular group (if they're younger than you) without talking "down" to them.  It's certainly doable.  

 

The important thing is that the priest composes his homily with his community in mind. No homily is going to be all things for all people, but if the pastor is only speaking to the elderly and forgetting the families, or only talking to the families with young children, or whatever, then something's wrong. 

[add]

At what age does a life teen become a grow up?

[blazeingstar]

See that's the thing.  I loved my college masses because the homilies were usually pretty good, and definitely directed at us college students.  It's no different than when we went to the seminary daily mass and the homilies were particularly addressed towards the seminarians.  It can be a great tool, if done well.  It's really an art, trying to figure out how to talk "at" a particular group (if they're younger than you) without talking "down" to them.  It's certainly doable.  

 

The important thing is that the priest composes his homily with his community in mind. No homily is going to be all things for all people, but if the pastor is only speaking to the elderly and forgetting the families, or only talking to the families with young children, or whatever, then something's wrong. 

 

But its a catch 22 problem where I live.  I don't require catering, however, I do tire (and get frustrated) at the homilies that are of zero benefit to me, or make me feel inadequite or like I can't possibly understand beuacse I don't have children.  With something like 80% of our church's demographic over 60, that's all I hear.

 

Unless I attend a kids or teens mass or go to Mass with a really, really good priest I never hear things that are pertinant.

 

I think this drives young people away...and in the very least lifeteen helps with this.  The young people, not feeling welcome find their own place

[NotreDame]

But its a catch 22 problem where I live.  I don't require catering, however, I do tire (and get frustrated) at the homilies that are of zero benefit to me, or make me feel inadequite or like I can't possibly understand beuacse I don't have children.  With something like 80% of our church's demographic over 60, that's all I hear.

 

Unless I attend a kids or teens mass or go to Mass with a really, really good priest I never hear things that are pertinant.

 

I think this drives young people away...and in the very least lifeteen helps with this.  The young people, not feeling welcome find their own place

 

These just sound like poor sermons.  My guess is that if you asked the same people who are giving the tiring sermons now to give a sermon 'directed' at teens, it would still be equally tiring. 

[blazeingstar]

These just sound like poor sermons.  My guess is that if you asked the same people who are giving the tiring sermons now to give a sermon 'directed' at teens, it would still be equally tiring. 

 

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  Fr. "K" gives GREAT children's homilies but his adult ones are horrid.  I do like going to masses that are children focused as he isn't appealing to the 60+ crowd and reaffirming wht they already know and, in my opinion, forcing complacancy.

[PhuturePriest]

My issue with "speaking in tongues", is that every time you see people do it, you don't know what they're saying. Why is that a problem? Because if you read the Bible, when people speak in Tongues, everyone can understand them, even if they don't speak the same language. Speaking in Tongues doesn't mean your eyes rolling to the back of your head and rolling your tongue like it's a Mexican fiesta (Which is a cool trick I wish I could do, by the way).

 

As for music, I grew up with TobyMac, DC Talk, Newsboys, Hawk Nelson, Relient K, Matt Maher, all the really good bands from the '90s, but I still heavily prefer traditional hymns, Latin chant in particular. I've never heard chant in Mass before, and that to me is a tragedy, especially considering Vatican II and previous Papacies have heavily emphasized it in the Mass.

[Basilisa Marie]

But its a catch 22 problem where I live.  I don't require catering, however, I do tire (and get frustrated) at the homilies that are of zero benefit to me, or make me feel inadequite or like I can't possibly understand beuacse I don't have children.  With something like 80% of our church's demographic over 60, that's all I hear.

 

Unless I attend a kids or teens mass or go to Mass with a really, really good priest I never hear things that are pertinant.

 

I think this drives young people away...and in the very least lifeteen helps with this.  The young people, not feeling welcome find their own place

 

Yeah, that's one reason why youth groups succeed, because young people have particular issues that they're dealing with on all kinds of levels, so they really need a bit of catering. But that's what youth nights are for, to address those issues. And most parishes have zero unmarried young adult ministry, so it can be hard to find your place at a parish until you're married, because then you finally fit in with the majority population. The homily really is just supposed to explain the readings, at the bare minimum. Parishes should develop religious ed programming to help address the particular needs of all the groups. 

[Basilisa Marie]

My issue with "speaking in tongues", is that every time you see people do it, you don't know what they're saying. Why is that a problem? Because if you read the Bible, when people speak in Tongues, everyone can understand them, even if they don't speak the same language. Speaking in Tongues doesn't mean your eyes rolling to the back of your head and rolling your tongue like it's a Mexican fiesta (Which is a cool trick I wish I could do, by the way).

 

As for music, I grew up with TobyMac, DC Talk, Newsboys, Hawk Nelson, Relient K, Matt Maher, all the really good bands from the '90s, but I still heavily prefer traditional hymns, Latin chant in particular. I've never heard chant in Mass before, and that to me is a tragedy, especially considering Vatican II and previous Papacies have heavily emphasized it in the Mass.

 

Did you know that there's also a gift called interpreting tongues?  So many people put so much emphasis on speaking in tongues because it's such a strange gift, but really it shouldn't be given so much attention, especially if there isn't a true interpreter around.