Usccb Will Not Comply With Hhs Mandate

[Nihil Obstat]

I would love to see every diocese in the US resist paying the fines too. Imagine how neat that would be.

[havok579257]

Thank you for posting this. I'm glad to see that active resistance from the bishops has begun. 

 

Personally, I'd rather see the bishops refuse to pay the fines too. Paying the fines puts money in the government's pockets, and God knows what they might do with it - provide more abortions, or something.

 

I'd like to see a hunger strike, by bishops and faithful alike, outside the White House. Preferably with readings from Dr. Martin Luther King's "A Letter from a Birmingham Jail." 

 

Or I'd rather see bishops arrested and taken to jail.  Going to jail is a well established tradition among Catholics - Jesus, St. Peter, St. Paul, St. Joan of Arc, St. Thomas More, St. Oliver Plunkett, St. Edith Stein, and St. Maximilian Kolbe among others. Additionally, having federal agents arrest a bishop (or a group of them), escort them to prison, book them, etc. would make a powerful statement of resistance. 

well if your all for the bishops going to jail for this then I sincerely hope you will be going to jail alongside with them.  its easy to sit here and call for someone else to stand up to injustice and go to jail, its another thing to do the same thing yourself.  you know, since your calling for others to go to jail.

[KnightofChrist]

Objectively, no, I don't think one's soul is at risk when one purchases health insurance, in that it's not something all Catholics are forbidden to do. But there's nothing wrong if an individual weighs the pros and cons of the situation and comes to the conclusion for himself or herself that buying health insurance is worse than not.  He's free to make that decision. Just like we're not morally obligated TO buy health insurance, across the board. And ultimately, we DO put our souls at risk if we don't follow our consciences. 

 

I agree with some of that, but I'm concerned that I cannot agree with it all. I don't know, because I wonder how much opinions would change if the law subsidized the legal murder of some other group other than the unborn, such as African-americans, Jews, mentally handicap, or any other group of persons society would deem unneeded.

[KnightofChrist]

well if your all for the bishops going to jail for this then I sincerely hope you will be going to jail alongside with them.  its easy to sit here and call for someone else to stand up to injustice and go to jail, its another thing to do the same thing yourself.  you know, since your calling for others to go to jail.

 

I REALLY don't want to, but if that is what happens that is what happens. I would be honored to serve jail time with the Bishops for defending the Faith. I would really dislike being it jail though. :p

[havok579257]

I agree with some of that, but I'm concerned that I cannot agree with it all. I don't know, because I wonder how much opinions would change if the law subsidized the legal murder of some other group other than the unborn, such as African-americans, Jews, mentally handicap, or any other group of persons society would deem unneeded.

 

 

that's similar to saying, your putting your own soul at risk by living in a country that permits abortion because you know your tax dollars goes to abortions.  Although if you moved to a country that outlaws abortion, then none of your tax money would go towards abortions.  The idea is the same.  I think your getting into strict legalism here.  Just think about how many things you buy a day where the profits go to planned parenthood or some other abortion group.  How many companies(fuel included) do you purchase from that give some amount of money to an abortion group?   

[havok579257]

I REALLY don't want to, but if that is what happens that is what happens. I would be honored to serve jail time with the Bishops for defending the Faith. I would really dislike being it jail though. :P

 

 

I agree going to jail would stink but it would be an honor to be in jail with the bishops.  That is one thing.  Its another to advocate the bishops go to jail while that persons sits in his nice home and watches.

[KnightofChrist]

that's similar to saying, your putting your own soul at risk by living in a country that permits abortion because you know your tax dollars goes to abortions.  Although if you moved to a country that outlaws abortion, then none of your tax money would go towards abortions.  The idea is the same. I think your getting into strict legalism here. Just think about how many things you buy a day where the profits go to planned parenthood or some other abortion group. How many companies(fuel included) do you purchase from that give some amount of money to an abortion group?

Nope, it is saying what was actually stated. That I fully agree with most of what she stated, I just have some concerns. Those concerns being how other peoples opinions would change if the law funded the mass murder of other groups of people other than unborn children.

[KnightofChrist]

I agree going to jail would stink but it would be an honor to be in jail with the bishops.  That is one thing.  Its another to advocate the bishops go to jail while that persons sits in his nice home and watches.

Well yes that would be wrong to advocate. But no one has advocated that in this thread. You are misrepresenting Luigi.

[Luigi]

well if your all for the bishops going to jail for this then I sincerely hope you will be going to jail alongside with them.  its easy to sit here and call for someone else to stand up to injustice and go to jail, its another thing to do the same thing yourself.  you know, since your calling for others to go to jail.

 

I am perfectly willing to go to jail for this.

 

My view is that the current president and a number of his laws - the health insurance laws, in particular - violate the civil rights of American citizens. Read up on civil rights history - any number of people went to jail any number of times for any length of time to ensure that they could exercise their civil rights. Read up on resistance to the Vietnam war. Any number of people went to jail any number of times for any length of time to protest the draft. There is dignity in going to jail to protest unjust laws. And, typically, doing so makes excellent headlines, thereby focusing the public's attention on the unjustness of the laws.

 

If my bishop calls for demonstrators/protestors to join him in sitting-in somewhere or marching somewhere, I'll be the first to sign up.

 

 

[Basilisa Marie]

I agree with some of that, but I'm concerned that I cannot agree with it all. I don't know, because I wonder how much opinions would change if the law subsidized the legal murder of some other group other than the unborn, such as African-americans, Jews, mentally handicap, or any other group of persons society would deem unneeded.

 

 

Well, yeah, opinions would change. But my point was to defend your right to follow your own conscience when it comes to making the decision of whether or not to get health insurance for yourself.  It's not an objective, everyone-must-do-this kind of rule, which is what I was understanding Crosscut to be bristling at.  Unless you are in fact saying that it's morally evil for everyone to get any health insurance if it also covers birth control/abortions/sterilizations/etc. Because if that's the case, then we disagree. But I thought you were talking about your own situation. 

[Norseman82]

Alternatively, the bishops could simply shut down all Catholic schools, hospitals, charitable institutions, etc. and let the chips and societal interruptions fall where they may.  I'd like to see how Rahm Emanuel would handle the sudden influx of thousands of former parochial school children into the Chicago Public School system, some parts of which are already overcrowded as it is.  This would not be unprecented, as the Church did something equivalent in the Middle Ages when they issued interdicts that would not allow the functioning of Church institutons and services until what it saw that needed to be corrected in a jurisdiction got corrected.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Norseman82

[KnightofChrist]

Well, yeah, opinions would change. But my point was to defend your right to follow your own conscience when it comes to making the decision of whether or not to get health insurance for yourself. It's not an objective, everyone-must-do-this kind of rule, which is what I was understanding Crosscut to be bristling at. Unless you are in fact saying that it's morally evil for everyone to get any health insurance if it also covers birth control/abortions/sterilizations/etc. Because if that's the case, then we disagree. But I thought you were talking about your own situation.

I am replying from my phone, so I apologize for being short.

I agree, one must follow one's conscience. But it must be rightly ordered, based on the truth that God has written into the heart of all. One cannot commit wrong even if ones conscience says otherwise.

I agree one can and should follow one's conscience in reguard to the ACA/Obamacare. I am not telling people they must not get insurance, nor do I say they must choose they path I have chosen. It is precarious, it runs the risk of physical, financial, and legal dangers. But I cannot in good conscience comply with a law I know in my heart of my soul to be unjust and unholy.

It would not change my opinions of the law if instead it subsidize the mass murder of unborn children, or any other groups of people. If it would change the opinion of others, it would very likely change how they would weigh their conscience in regards to the law. If they were to go from pro to con that realization should suggest that they may need to reexamine their conscience on the matter.