Usccb Will Not Comply With Hhs Mandate

[Kateri89]

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/11/13/catholic-bishops-we-will-not-comply-with-the-hhs-abortion-mandate/

[Luigi]

Thank you for posting this. I'm glad to see that active resistance from the bishops has begun. 

 

Personally, I'd rather see the bishops refuse to pay the fines too. Paying the fines puts money in the government's pockets, and God knows what they might do with it - provide more abortions, or something.

 

I'd like to see a hunger strike, by bishops and faithful alike, outside the White House. Preferably with readings from Dr. Martin Luther King's "A Letter from a Birmingham Jail." 

 

Or I'd rather see bishops arrested and taken to jail.  Going to jail is a well established tradition among Catholics - Jesus, St. Peter, St. Paul, St. Joan of Arc, St. Thomas More, St. Oliver Plunkett, St. Edith Stein, and St. Maximilian Kolbe among others. Additionally, having federal agents arrest a bishop (or a group of them), escort them to prison, book them, etc. would make a powerful statement of resistance. 

 

 

[KnightofChrist]

From the article...

 

Ultimately, they promised to resist the mandate if it is not corrected or rescinded.

 

“As the government’s implementation of the mandate against us approaches, we bishops stand united in our resolve to resist this heavy burden and protect our religious freedom,” they said. “We will continue our efforts in Congress and especially with the promising initiatives in the courts to protect the religious freedom that ensures our ability to fulfill the Gospel by serving the common good.”

 

What would that resistance look like?

 

Given a choice of paying millions of dollars in fines or complying with a government mandate he thinks is morally wrong, Bishop David Zubik of Pittsburgh testified in court this week that he would rather pay the fines. From a report on his appearance:

 

“I would not be able to live with myself knowing that we’re contradicting what we believe,” he said during a hearing before U.S. District Judge Arthur Schwab.

 

Under the law’s penalties, Catholic Charities would be subject to a daily fine of $100 per employee if Zubik doesn’t sign, said Susan Rauscher, the nonprofit’s executive director. That would total $2 million to $4 million a year for an organization with a $10 million operating budget, she said.

 

The Pittsburgh and Erie diocese are suing the government, claiming that the requirement violates their rights under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. They’re asking Schwab to temporarily block enforcement of the mandate on their nonprofits while the dioceses pursue the lawsuits.

 

Bishop Lawrence Persico, head of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Erie, testified that signing the document would cause the church to cooperate in the provision of “immoral” services.

[CrossCuT]

But the fines go towards the same thing!

[KnightofChrist]

But the fines go towards the same thing!

 

'Paying' the fine is involuntary, the Feds will steal/take it anyway. That's quite different than complying with the unjust law.

Edited November 14, 2013 by KnightofChrist

[Kateri89]

'Paying' the fine is involuntary, the Feds will steal/take it anyway. That's quite different than complying with the unjust law.

 

So have you opted out of purchasing a plan?

[KnightofChrist]

So have you opted out of purchasing a plan?

 

Yes, because I cannot not afford it both on moral and financial grounds.

[Kateri89]

Yes, because I cannot not afford it both on moral and financial grounds.

 

See, I was so torn up about this decision because I read and posted a link to an article from the National Catholic Bioethics Center which said that purchasing a plan (on the part of the individual) is only mediate material cooperation as opposed to immediate material cooperation in evil.  To clarify, if we act with prudence in this decision, we have a responsibility to safeguard our own health and the money we would pay into a plan would only possibly be used for immoral procedures/medications, etc.  The link between us paying the money and how the money is then utilized are not directly related.

 

In a sense, if I were an employer and I gave my pro-choice employee a paycheck, I would know that there is a possibility that they would use that money for contraception and/or abortion services but I'm not giving them that money for those services.  I'm simply paying them for working for me. Just putting that analogy out there.

 

Then I read this statement from the USCCB which seemed to state the opposite.  After all, Bishop Zubik (the Bishop of my own diocese I might add) said â€œI would not be able to live with myself knowing that we’re contradicting what we believe”.  This was my original line of thinking and it keeps coming back to me.  Many PMers, out of genuine concern, have reminded me that if I opt out of insurance and something happens to me, I could end up crippled by medical expenses.  I appreciated their advice and originally chose a healthcare plan but I have since gone back and forth, opting out then picking a plan and then opting out again.  But as far as prudence in safeguarding our own health, I've thought quite a bit about this.  Catholics, and Christians in general, have always recognized the value in self-sacrifice for the betterment of others.  The whole idea around abortion is sacrificing someone else's well-being for your own betterment.  All we have to do is look at a crucifix to see that Christ wasn't thinking about safeguarding His own health when He chose to die on the cross for our salvation.

 

Sorry if this seems like a lot of rambling, just the product of a lot of contemplation and prayer.

[KnightofChrist]

See, I was so torn up about this decision because I read and posted a link to an article from the National Catholic Bioethics Center which said that purchasing a plan (on the part of the individual) is only mediate material cooperation as opposed to immediate material cooperation in evil.  To clarify, if we act with prudence in this decision, we have a responsibility to safeguard our own health and the money we would pay into a plan would only possibly be used for immoral procedures/medications, etc.  The link between us paying the money and how the money is then utilized are not directly related.

 

In a sense, if I were an employer and I gave my pro-choice employee a paycheck, I would know that there is a possibility that they would use that money for contraception and/or abortion services but I'm not giving them that money for those services.  I'm simply paying them for working for me. Just putting that analogy out there.

 

Then I read this statement from the USCCB which seemed to state the opposite.  After all, Bishop Zubik (the Bishop of my own diocese I might add) said â€œI would not be able to live with myself knowing that we’re contradicting what we believe”.  This was my original line of thinking and it keeps coming back to me.  Many PMers, out of genuine concern, have reminded me that if I opt out of insurance and something happens to me, I could end up crippled by medical expenses.  I appreciated their advice and originally chose a healthcare plan but I have since gone back and forth, opting out then picking a plan and then opting out again.  But as far as prudence in safeguarding our own health, I've thought quite a bit about this.  Catholics, and Christians in general, have always recognized the value in self-sacrifice for the betterment of others.  The whole idea around abortion is sacrificing someone else's well-being for your own betterment.  All we have to do is look at a crucifix to see that Christ wasn't thinking about safeguarding His own health when He chose to die on the cross for our salvation.

 

Sorry if this seems like a lot of rambling, just the product of a lot of contemplation and prayer.

 

I cannot tell you what you should do. I would however trust the advice and share the concerns of Bishops, or Bishop above those at the NCBC. As for myself I do not wish to have any sort of material cooperation with the law. My health is very important to me, but my soul is more important.
 

[Basilisa Marie]

Here's a link to the full text of the bishops' statement: http://whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/2013/11/on-frustrating-hhs-mandate-we-stand.html

[CrossCuT]

I cannot tell you what you should do. I would however trust the advice and share the concerns of Bishops, or Bishop above those at the NCBC. As for myself I do not wish to have any sort of material cooperation with the law. My health is very important to me, but my soul is more important.
 

 

I really dont think your soul is at risk if you purchase health insurance. 

I have yet to hear an authority figure in the church tell us its a sin. I dont think Jesus will hold it against you if its out of your control.

[KnightofChrist]

I really dont think your soul is at risk if you purchase health insurance. 

I have yet to hear an authority figure in the church tell us its a sin. I dont think Jesus will hold it against you if its out of your control.

 

I disagree with most of that, but in any event I cannot afford.

[CrossCuT]

Youll be paying for something you dont support either way...its out of your control. If you choose that the money goes towards taking care of yourself how can anyone fault you for it? Its the responsible choice. 

[KnightofChrist]

Youll be paying for something you dont support either way...its out of your control. If you choose that the money goes towards taking care of yourself how can anyone fault you for it? Its the responsible choice. 

 

It's not out of my control completely. I can choose to comply with the unjust law, or not comply. Yes, in the end they will by force of coercion take my money from me. But again that is not the same as me willingly giving it. I choose to have them steal it from me rather than to comply. I choose what I believe by faith and the dictates of my conscience is the most responsible choice. I choose not to comply.

[Basilisa Marie]

Objectively, no, I don't think one's soul is at risk when one purchases health insurance, in that it's not something all Catholics are forbidden to do. But there's nothing wrong if an individual weighs the pros and cons of the situation and comes to the conclusion for himself or herself that buying health insurance is worse than not.  He's free to make that decision. Just like we're not morally obligated TO buy health insurance, across the board. And ultimately, we DO put our souls at risk if we don't follow our consciences. 

Edited November 14, 2013 by Basilisa Marie