Woman Cardinals.

[Basilisa Marie]

But not every wonderful orthodox lady would turn down being created a cardinal if it were offered to her. That makes it sound like all "good" women worthy of getting a red hat would turn it down on principle. 

[4588686]

That might have got you through Women's Studies at college, but it doesn't swing in the real world.

 

 

In the real world no self-respecting woman would ever go to bed with you.

[4588686]

As a Catholic I have a moral obligation to obey my parents in all lawful commands until such a time as I am married and leave home.  Imagine how it feels to have such a moral obligation!  

 

 

So, you live with your parents and you're lecturing her how the real world works?  Gotcha.  Let me give you a little insight into how the actually really world works.  You come off as though you have a snide, sexist attitude towards women.  Maybe you hide that and come off as a 'nice guy' but eventually women will notice and the ones with a little self respect are going to tell you to go floop yourself.  A lot.

[NotreDame]

So, you live with your parents and you're lecturing her how the real world works?  Gotcha.  Let me give you a little insight into how the actually really world works.  You come off as though you have a snide, sexist attitude towards women.  Maybe you hide that and come off as a 'nice guy' but eventually women will notice and the ones with a little self respect are going to tell you to go floop yourself.  A lot.

 

Is this part of your schtick or are you perhaps drinking?  This just comes off, very, very poorly and its probably about time you step away from the keyboard for a bit. 

 

Moderator, this is degenerating into name calling.  If you shut down threads in here, this one is due.

[MIKolbe]

how quaint

[4588686]

Is this part of your schtick or are you perhaps drinking?  This just comes off, very, very poorly and its probably about time you step away from the keyboard for a bit. 

 

Moderator, this is degenerating into name calling.  If you shut down threads in here, this one is due.

I'm giving him valuable life advice.

[Basilisa Marie]

Is this part of your schtick or are you perhaps drinking?  This just comes off, very, very poorly and its probably about time you step away from the keyboard for a bit. 

 

Moderator, this is degenerating into name calling.  If you shut down threads in here, this one is due.

 

ND, meet Hasan, one of our resident Trolls. 

 

Wonderful, beautiful trolls.  :hehe2:

 

Sure, doesn't excuse rule-breaking, but being rude to people is kind of what he does for fun. 

[Semper Catholic]

Someone makes a good point that you can't refute accuse them of trolling and run to mommy and daddy. Wash rinse repeat.

[NotreDame]

Someone makes a good point that you can't refute accuse them of trolling and run to mommy and daddy. Wash rinse repeat.

 

Once I see more than a few posts getting vulgar and ad hominem it usually means the rest of the posts will descend to the same level.  Your post is a good example of this.

 

In the sense that this is a catholic forum and all the catholics should be trying to practice charity, I feel this thread has outlived its usefulness.   It's not my call to make and maybe they let slapping matches go on ad naseum in the Debate Table board, but in Vocation Station they shut them down. 

[4588686]

Once I see more than a few posts getting vulgar and ad hominem it usually means the rest of the posts will descend to the same level.  Your post is a good example of this.

 

In the sense that this is a catholic forum and all the catholics should be trying to practice charity, I feel this thread has outlived its usefulness.   It's not my call to make and maybe they let slapping matches go on ad naseum in the Debate Table board, but in Vocation Station they shut them down. 

  I don't think that being blunt is the same thing as being rude. Given the tone that the other poster was taking with people I don't think that my bluntness was unwarranted or undeserved.  I think it was an appropriate response to his perpetually condescending and sexist tone.

[ChristinaTherese]

Once I see more than a few posts getting vulgar and ad hominem it usually means the rest of the posts will descend to the same level.  Your post is a good example of this.

 

In the sense that this is a catholic forum and all the catholics should be trying to practice charity, I feel this thread has outlived its usefulness.   It's not my call to make and maybe they let slapping matches go on ad naseum in the Debate Table board, but in Vocation Station they shut them down. 

See, the difference between policy in the Debate Table and in VS is the culture we want to nurture. VS is supposed to be a welcoming, nurturing community. You'll sometimes see people talking about how things should be moved over here or stopped if they're getting out of hand. The Debate Table, on the other hand, is much more open to, well, debate. Slapping matches are never okay (see the phorum policies linked to at the bottom of every page), but I'm not sure this thread has really gotten that far yet. (Of course, I haven't been paying that close of attention, because I don't really like this phorum. I generally stick to VS, the Lame Board, and maybe Open Mic. I've read pretty much all of this thread though.)

 

Also, just using the report button is a good way to tell moderators what you think. You don't have to contribute to the derailing of a thread by posting messages to the mods in the thread itself.

[An Historian]

In the real world no self-respecting woman would ever go to bed with you.

 

My friend it is a true testament to your character that your first thoughts concern the probabilities of my ever getting laid.  Maybe you have a string of women that come through your apartment.  Maybe you're the guy that can fill your bed with a ton of woman.  But for you the sad truth is that you will in turn offer them nothing but degradation, abuse, and humiliation.  The sad truth is my friend that the women in your life have very little self-respect either if they would ever lower themselves to associating with such a vile-minded person as yourself.

 

I find it amusing to no ends that everyone waltz by your post wherein you have turned women into nothing more than a sexual objective, a sexual goal to be achieved, yet they pounce on me for saying that a woman should be subject to her husband.

 

Right.  I'm the sexist.  :hehe2:

[An Historian]

So, you live with your parents and you're lecturing her how the real world works?  Gotcha.  Let me give you a little insight into how the actually really world works.  You come off as though you have a snide, sexist attitude towards women.  Maybe you hide that and come off as a 'nice guy' but eventually women will notice and the ones with a little self respect are going to tell you to go floop yourself.  A lot.

 

Yes I live with my parents.  I've also spent time away from home.  I have a job, and I've been through tertiary-level education.  And I am not single.  I am engaged to a wonderful, beautiful Catholic woman.  We've been in a relationship for two years.

 

You can say whatever you want about me, I really couldn't care less.  But to sit there and say that my fiancée must have no self-respect is not on.  You have already admirably proved that you are incapable of intellectual and rational discussion on a topic or subject.  You react in a violent manner at hearing something you don't like or approve.  You are completely blind to your own sexist attitudes whilst lamenting my apparent sexism.  You see something you do not like and you attempt to marginalise the person for daring to not be of the same mind as you.  I may be a sexist but you sir are a fascist.

 

I pity you, sad, sad little man.

[Aloysius]

both of you should really cool it with the ad hominems, please.

 

when it comes to arguing power dynamics within the Church... it's usually the people who don't even really want to be in the Church who are most concerned with them... the whole power dynamics, "hey women how long are you going to eat these poo sandwiches" thing just doesn't fit at all with what it means to be part of Christ's Church.  personally, I am a layman, and do not nor do I ever want any level of power in the Church.  I want to relate to the Church in my role as a layman, which means making known to my pastors what my spiritual needs are but not actually being the one to make any liturgical, sacramental, or magisterial decisions... same as any laywoman.  I don't view male priests or bishops as being "representatives" of me in any way just because I'm male.  I am completely without "power" in the institutional levels of the Church and that's just exactly how I like it.  the Church is like a piece of art, and the logic of the Church is the logic of a work of art--we paint the Apostolic elements with male colors because we're painting a picture of the Apostles... we paint those who stand for Christ in to administer sacraments for us with the male colors because Christ was a man.  people who try to demand gender equality into those roles are treating those roles like they'd treat any other social role... they're treating them without the faith.  and if they're really treating them without the faith, then they're treating them far too seriously than they really should be, they really have no power over anyone who doesn't voluntarily submit to that power (and it drives the anti-faithful crazy that anyone would actually voluntarily submit, because they don't understand faith).  the Church is like a work of art painted by people's lives, painted seriously in faith by people committing their whole lives to be part of the artwork... and anyone that apply gender and power dynamics to that are entirely missing the point.

 

cardinals, of course, don't need to be any of that, they stand simply for the advisers of the Bishop of Rome... that title is not meant to be symbolic of Apostles or those who stand in for Christ, they're meant to advise the Bishop of Rome and to aid in the selection of the next Bishop of Rome... I wouldn't mind female and male lay cardinals if it were done correctly.  and by being done correctly that means that we should keep those who stand in the Apostolic imagery in control of the Church as is proper to the imagery the Church ought to be painted in... so I'd imagine there should be conclave rules by which the lay cardinals vote up a list of candidates and the cardinal bishops get to vote from among those candidates as to who will be the next pope (or to theoretically reject that list and ask for a new one to be voted up to them)... or some other such complementary role between the lay cardinals and the cardinal bishops (or cardinal priests if that were brought back alongside this change).

[Semper Catholic]

both of you should really cool it with the ad hominems, please.

when it comes to arguing power dynamics within the Church... it's usually the people who don't even really want to be in the Church who are most concerned with them... the whole power dynamics, "hey women how long are you going to eat these poo sandwiches" thing just doesn't fit at all with what it means to be part of Christ's Church. personally, I am a layman, and do not nor do I ever want any level of power in the Church. I want to relate to the Church in my role as a layman, which means making known to my pastors what my spiritual needs are but not actually being the one to make any liturgical, sacramental, or magisterial decisions... same as any laywoman. I don't view male priests or bishops as being "representatives" of me in any way just because I'm male. I am completely without "power" in the institutional levels of the Church and that's just exactly how I like it. the Church is like a piece of art, and the logic of the Church is the logic of a work of art--we paint the Apostolic elements with male colors because we're painting a picture of the Apostles... we paint those who stand for Christ in to administer sacraments for us with the male colors because Christ was a man. people who try to demand gender equality into those roles are treating those roles like they'd treat any other social role... they're treating them without the faith. and if they're really treating them without the faith, then they're treating them far too seriously than they really should be, they really have no power over anyone who doesn't voluntarily submit to that power (and it drives the anti-faithful crazy that anyone would actually voluntarily submit, because they don't understand faith). the Church is like a work of art painted by people's lives, painted seriously in faith by people committing their whole lives to be part of the artwork... and anyone that apply gender and power dynamics to that are entirely missing the point.

cardinals, of course, don't need to be any of that, they stand simply for the advisers of the Bishop of Rome... that title is not meant to be symbolic of Apostles or those who stand in for Christ, they're meant to advise the Bishop of Rome and to aid in the selection of the next Bishop of Rome... I wouldn't mind female and male lay cardinals if it were done correctly. and by being done correctly that means that we should keep those who stand in the Apostolic imagery in control of the Church as is proper to the imagery the Church ought to be painted in... so I'd imagine there should be conclave rules by which the lay cardinals vote up a list of candidates and the cardinal bishops get to vote from among those candidates as to who will be the next pope (or to theoretically reject that list and ask for a new one to be voted up to them)... or some other such complementary role between the lay cardinals and the cardinal bishops (or cardinal priests if that were brought back alongside this change).

I'm glad someone with a level head believes that a female Cardinal would be a good thing.

I think it's pretty clear that women deserve to have their voices heard when selecting the Pope. In the eyes of the Lord women and men are equal and are judged equally. Edited November 10, 2013 by Semper Catholic