What Is A Vocation?

[BarbTherese]

BT, I'm glad I posted earlier, if only because it brought me back to read all the great info you posted! 

 

>>> This is one of the reasons that I liked the video in that one takes into account life circumstances, which have not occurred willy nilly, nor by 'fate' but in the terms of the Doctrine of Divine Providence (The Permissive Will of God),

 

This was another thing I didn't like about the video.  Because something happened doesn't make it the will of God. Total tangent, but  I'm sensitive to this because I've had some run-ins with shady sects within the Church and they always use the "You are here" and "it must be the will of God" to cut through skepticism... But I'm going to use this as an excuse to go read more about it. 

 

You know, I never realized there was such a debate about the single life vocation when there is so much in the new testament exhorting people not to marry.   I'll be thinking about this more and will read the articles you linked to.  I'm now sure I don't have a vocation to priesthood or religious life and I'm getting on in years... and I'm in a position where I am probably a few years from being able to get married if I wanted to.  Hmm...

 

Thank you for the post, ND.  I will come back to it at some later time, and respond to each point you have raised.  I did do a reply actually, but then suddenly a message "The Webpage has Expired" popped up and I lost my post.  Not to worry, The Lord has reasons who knows even when a hair of our head falls. :)

 

Catcha later............Barb

[BarbTherese]

BT, I'm glad I posted earlier, if only because it brought me back to read all the great info you posted! 

Hi ND again. This attempt I am writing into Word and then cut and paste into Phatmass, so I wont loose my post again.  Lots of problems formatting - apologies.

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Barb wrote :>>> This is one of the reasons that I liked the video in that one takes into account life circumstances, which have not occurred willy nilly, nor by 'fate' but in the terms of the Doctrine of Divine Providence (The Permissive Will of God),

 

ND wrote : This was another thing I didn't like about the video.  Because something happened doesn't make it the will of God. Total tangent, but  I'm sensitive to this because I've had some run-ins with shady sects within the Church and they always use the "You are here" and "it must be the will of God" to cut through skepticism... But I'm going to use this as an excuse to go read more about it. 

 

That God either directly (indicatively) wills or permits (Permissive Will of God) all things in the universe and in our lives is a Doctrine of The Church. No event, no circumstance in life – no matter how great nor how small - nothing whatsoever is outside of God’s Will, either His Direct or Indicative Will or His Permissive Will.  There is a whole section on Divine Providence in the Catholic Catechism here http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p4.htm#324

What follows is taken from the section on the above link, it is not the entire section, which does bear reading and internalizing as it is an important doctrine in the living out and understanding of our lives:  

Catholic Catechism:

302 Creation has its own goodness and proper perfection, but it did not spring forth complete from the hands of the Creator. The universe was created "in a state of journeying" (in statu viae) toward an ultimate perfection yet to be attained, to which God has destined it. We call "divine providence" the dispositions by which God guides his creation toward this perfection:

By his providence God protects and governs all things which he has made, "reaching mightily from one end of the earth to the other, and ordering all things well". For "all are open and laid bare to his eyes", even those things which are yet to come into existence through the free action of creatures.¹⁶¹

312 In time we can discover that God in his almighty providence can bring a good from the consequences of an evil, even a moral evil, caused by his creatures: "It was not you", said Joseph to his brothers, "who sent me here, but God. . . You meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive."¹⁷⁸ From the greatest moral evil ever committed - the rejection and murder of God's only Son, caused by the sins of all men - God, by his grace that "abounded all the more",¹⁷⁹ brought the greatest of goods: the glorification of Christ and our redemption. But for all that, evil never becomes a good.

313 "We know that in everything God works for good for those who love him."¹⁸⁰ The constant witness of the saints confirms this truth:

St. Catherine of Siena said to "those who are scandalized and rebel against what happens to them": "Everything comes from love, all is ordained for the salvation of man, God does nothing without this goal in mind."¹⁸¹

St. Thomas More, shortly before his martyrdom, consoled his daughter: "Nothing can come but that that God wills. And I make me very sure that whatsoever that be, seem it never so bad in sight, it shall indeed be the best."¹⁸²

Dame Julian of Norwich: "Here I was taught by the grace of God that I should steadfastly keep me in the faith. . . and that at the same time I should take my stand on and earnestly believe in what our Lord shewed in this time - that 'all manner [of] thing shall be well.'"¹⁸³

A simple and concise explanation of God’s Indicative and His Permissive Will can be found here http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2011/06/20/how-can-i-know-the-will-of-god-in-my-life-part-i-of-ii   The RCSpiritualDirection website is a reliable and sound source of Catholic Spirituality and Teaching.

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ND wrote: You know, I never realized there was such a debate about the single life vocation when there is so much in the new testament exhorting people not to marry.   I'll be thinking about this more and will read the articles you linked to.  I'm now sure I don't have a vocation to priesthood or religious life and I'm getting on in years... and I'm in a position where I am probably a few years from being able to get married if I wanted to.  Hmm...

 

 

Undoubtedly if one should consider that one MIGHT have a vocation to priesthood or religious life or consecrated life in some form, there is an obligation to prayerfully investigate and discern if God could be calling one to one of these vocations.  Certainly, the celibate life in all its forms has been considered from our very beginnings as the highest form of life on the theological scale – this is backed up and drawn from Scripture.

I do consider that the formal and publicly consecrated life to the evangelical counsels (only the priesthood is higher) is higher on the theological scale than the privately consecrated or dedicated life to the celibate lay state in some way.  However, nothing can be higher than the Will of God and so the obligation on all the baptized is to discern and embrace God’s Will always and certainly to discern to which state in life and vocation He may be inviting one.

 

[BarbTherese]

I've had some run-ins with shady sects within the Church and they always use the "You are here" and "it must be the will of God" to cut through scepticism

 

 I would like to comment on the above separately.  There is some truth in what has been said; however, is it God's Direct and Indicative Will or His Permissive Will would be up to you to decide.  God has either willed or permitted you to have your "run-ins".  Since they were "shady sects" it would be His Permissive Will - He has permitted you to have the run in for some reason from which He intends to draw good (Doctrine of The Lord's Divine Providence).  It would then be up to you to decide how you are going to act in an adverse situation which The Lord has permitted - and were it me, I would thank them for their welcome and advise that I had decided that their beliefs were not for me and that I am a committed Catholic.  An alternative could be to stay and present Catholic beliefs to them, which would probably lead to a debating situation.

There may be other alternatives.

Were it me again, no matter what I prayerfully decided to do in a Permissive Will of God situation of Divine Providence, I would pray for them and all "shady sects".

Sometimes we can know and recognize the good God intends to draw from an adverse situation that He has permitted - more often that good is a mystery and must wait for Heaven.  We trust confidently in God's Eternal Goodness in all things.

[BarbTherese]

You know, I never realized there was such a debate about the single life vocation when there is so much in the new testament exhorting people not to marry.   I'll be thinking about this more and will read the articles you linked to. 

 

 

A final comment on a point in your post, ND - quoted above.

 

Re the lay celibate life (single life) for the sake of TheKingdom - Jesus and His Gospel and as a life vocation.  I always advise and with great emphasis I hope that it should not be embraced without sound spiritual direction affirming the lay celibate state as one's life vocation - and that sound spiritual direction should be ongoing.  I am unaware of whether you plan to discern the lay celibate vocation for the sake of The Kingdom - but I wanted to make the comment anyway :)

As the quotation put forward by NO states "What one is meant to do as long as one is single, in other words, is to live one's total availability: to wait with active availability for God's will."   The lay celibate vocation by its very nature is an openness to a further call from God to some other vocation.  It is an attentiveness at all times and a developing sensitivity in an ideal sense to God's Will whatever it might be - and an openness and welcoming to "whatever it might be".  I have been in the lay celibate vocation for probably over 30 years now (and further developments possibly - and through my spiritual director and our Vicar General and Archbishop) and I have certainly never experienced a lack of fulfilment nor any sense of being 'suspended' or insecure, or anything the like - rather, as I stated, a developing continual openness and welcoming to God's Will whatever that might be, including if it should happen a call to another vocation.  To date this has never happened.  I undertook and committed to this vocation with (priest theologian) spiritual direction and then as well I consulted another theologian with questions that I had only a theologian probably could answer. I did not undertake this vocation lightly at all - and in the days when only priesthood and religious life were considered vocations per se - marriage did arrive a little later on the scene as a vocation per se.  My own awareness of where The Lord was calling me (celibate lay life for the sake of The Kingdom) was a surprise and unexpected to me and I journeyed on in some doubt until it was firmly confirmed by two priest theologians (one my spiritual director) and then our Archbishop in writing in his own hand on diocesan letterhead.

[add]

Motherhood is the Vocation for life everlasting
With which Our life's will never end
Motherhood is mankind's salvation

[NotreDame]

 I would like to comment on the above separately.  There is some truth in what has been said; however, is it God's Direct and Indicative Will or His Permissive Will would be up to you to decide.  God has either willed or permitted you to have your "run-ins".  Since they were "shady sects" it would be His Permissive Will - He has permitted you to have the run in for some reason from which He intends to draw good (Doctrine of The Lord's Divine Providence).  It would then be up to you to decide how you are going to act in an adverse situation which The Lord has permitted - and were it me, I would thank them for their welcome and advise that I had decided that their beliefs were not for me and that I am a committed Catholic.  An alternative could be to stay and present Catholic beliefs to them, which would probably lead to a debating situation.

There may be other alternatives.

Were it me again, no matter what I prayerfully decided to do in a Permissive Will of God situation of Divine Providence, I would pray for them and all "shady sects".

Sometimes we can know and recognize the good God intends to draw from an adverse situation that He has permitted - more often that good is a mystery and must wait for Heaven.  We trust confidently in God's Eternal Goodness in all things.

 

Thanks BT!   As for everything else (theology on divine providence, celibacy, single vocation) thank you very much for the links, I am going to read up on all of these over the course of this week and hopefully reflect on them for a long time to come.

 

As for the "shady sects", I'm less worried about my own experience.  I was given very sound advice that I'll "never know why God allowed it to happen" and that above all I can't hold any anger at the individuals.   God permits evil only for a higher good. 

 

My concern was more oriented toward how to properly combat the "you are here, therefore it's the will of God" argument those groups often use.  Just sort of a hypothetical.  It's obvious not everything that happens is automatically good (duh!) and hopefully using the links you gave I can express that in a more 'theological' sounding way. 

[BarbTherese]

Motherhood is the Vocation for life everlasting
With which Our life's will never end
Motherhood is mankind's salvation

 

Apologies Add, I am not too sure what you mean.  Without a doubt, every vocation has its vital importance - essential importance - to mankind and The Church or else they would not exist and The Lord would not call people to the various vocations and states in life.

 

 

 

 

Barb :)

Edited November 17, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

Thanks BT!   As for everything else (theology on divine providence, celibacy, single vocation) thank you very much for the links, I am going to read up on all of these over the course of this week and hopefully reflect on them for a long time to come.

 

As for the "shady sects", I'm less worried about my own experience.  I was given very sound advice that I'll "never know why God allowed it to happen" and that above all I can't hold any anger at the individuals.   God permits evil only for a higher good. 

 

My concern was more oriented toward how to properly combat the "you are here, therefore it's the will of God" argument those groups often use.  Just sort of a hypothetical.  It's obvious not everything that happens is automatically good (duh!) and hopefully using the links you gave I can express that in a more 'theological' sounding way. 

 

:)

I hope you will find what you need amongst the links.  You might like to pose your question re the shady sects and a reply on Open Mic or "Catholic Q & A - Ask a Scholar" - or even "Ask an Apologist" on the Catholic Answers website http://forums.catholic.com/  These just might be more helpful than the links. God's blessings on your quest.

[BarbTherese]

To bring things back to the subject of this thread.  And my take - a vocation is a call from God to a certain way of life.   Obviously, most of us are not going to hear The Lord speaking to us telling us His Will for us.  One of the prime ways that He does speak to us re our vocation is through the circumstances in our lives, our various gifts etc. even our negative circumstances; our desires and passions, appeals and non appeals - and He may call one into service in The Church in the priesthood or some form of consecrated life - or He may not and the person remains in the laity, either single (lay celibacy) or married.  We consider prayerfully all these things in discerning one's vocation in life. One of the ways The Church recognises a new charism and gift to The Church is that it meets a need in The Church or in the world.  So too, to my mind, in considering Divine Providence and our vocation in life, we too can ask ourselves if there is some need in The Church or in the world that one might be particularly gifted to meet.  I don't mean (in the main) something unique and unusual - most often it is going to be something very ordinary and not at all uncommon.  Most of all we consider all these things prayerfully.

 

If one chooses to remain in the laity, either in lay celibacy or The Sacrament of Marriage, there are many institutions in The Church including Third Orders that may permit one to have a close community and a specific spirituality orientation.  There is not, however, any necessity to join one of these organizations.  It's all a matter of discerning and getting in touch with where The Lord may be leading.

 

Here is a link to a site with a "discernment process" that I felt anyway was fairly comprehensive : http://vocationsreno.com/discernment/whattodo.shtml