Those Who Fought Prohibition

[4588686]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3larcGfwC0g

[Nihil Obstat]

This is not a very nice discussion. I will be back when people find their temporarily misplaced common courtesies. I guess I will tag in Winnie or something.

R2, I am still interested in where you were going with that thing, so you can PM me if you want to, or whatever.

[Lilllabettt]

ahhh the 2 man tag team. Not scared. often I face these odds when I lucha libre. One down one to go. Your partner is the more formidable one however. I will use this opportunity to go drink pineapple juice. No secret societies will benefit from my choice of activity.

[r2Dtoo]

Sinners inasmuch as everyone is a sinner. Heroes inasmuch as they defied an unjust and tyrannical law.

 

I suppose this statement just struck me as odd.  I remember your post awhile back, in which you made a litany of military battles you didn't like and while I hadn't heard of half of them I remember "Berlin" being among them.  I assume you were referring to our delivery of massive ordinance (aka "carpet bombing") on the city to defeat Hitler.  Ok, so ousting Hitler was a moral goal, but the means weren't and the end doesn't justify the means.  I get it.  I disagree, but I get it. But if someone works with the mob it's suddenly secondary if it was so people could have a drink.  Not only is it secondary, but these people are "heroes" to use your words.  I don't get that all.

[Nihil Obstat]

I suppose this statement just struck me as odd.  I remember your post awhile back, in which you made a litany of military battles you didn't like and while I hadn't heard of half of them I remember "Berlin" being among them.  I assume you were referring to our delivery of massive ordinance (aka "carpet bombing") on the city to defeat Hitler.  Ok, so ousting Hitler was a moral goal, but the means weren't and the end doesn't justify the means.  I get it.  I disagree, but I get it. But if someone works with the mob it's suddenly secondary if it was so people could have a drink.  Not only is it secondary, but these people are "heroes" to use your words.  I don't get that all.

I am starting with the premise that one cannot do evil so that good may come of it. We know that the carpet bombing of civilian centres is evil. Working with the mob is immoral if one does immoral things. Like murder. If a rum runner murdered someone as part of their rum running, we cannot condone that. "Working with the mob" is a kind of nebulous concept, more an emotional argument than anything substantive. I need specific actions if we are going to judge the morality or lack thereof of the moral circumstance of rum running. Not so for carpet bombing of cities. I find that to be a rather simpler scenario to evaluate.

[Maggyie]

I am starting with the premise that one cannot do evil so that good may come of it. We know that the carpet bombing of civilian centres is evil. Working with the mob is immoral if one does immoral things. Like murder. If a rum runner murdered someone as part of their rum running, we cannot condone that. "Working with the mob" is a kind of nebulous concept, more an emotional argument than anything substantive. I need specific actions if we are going to judge the morality or lack thereof of the moral circumstance of rum running. Not so for carpet bombing of cities. I find that to be a rather simpler scenario to evaluate.

 

One can't throw up one's hands and say "I was only Don Corleone's secretary!"

 

"Working with the mob" is not very nebulous at all. Such employment has very concrete characteristics. Get it. Concrete.   :cointoss:

[r2Dtoo]

I am starting with the premise that one cannot do evil so that good may come of it. We know that the carpet bombing of civilian centres is evil. Working with the mob is immoral if one does immoral things. Like murder. If a rum runner murdered someone as part of their rum running, we cannot condone that. "Working with the mob" is a kind of nebulous concept, more an emotional argument than anything substantive. I need specific actions if we are going to judge the morality or lack thereof of the moral circumstance of rum running. Not so for carpet bombing of cities. I find that to be a rather simpler scenario to evaluate.

 

 Just to elaborate on Maggie's point, the mob never hired nice people.  They were all equal in the amount of thuggery they were willing to do.

Edited October 27, 2013 by r2Dtoo

[4588686]

Interesting that you think all of a sudden we're only talking about rum runners, and not everyone involved in the whole scheme.  First time I've seen that in this thread. 

 

And to elaborate on Maggie's point, the mob never hired nice people.  They were all equal in the amount of thuggery they were willing to do.

 

 

Bobby Baccalieri seemed like a pretty nice guy.  He killed some people, sure.  But he seemed like a sweetie pie deep down.  

[PhuturePriest]

I am starting with the premise that one cannot do evil so that good may come of it. We know that the carpet bombing of civilian centres is evil. Working with the mob is immoral if one does immoral things. Like murder. If a rum runner murdered someone as part of their rum running, we cannot condone that. "Working with the mob" is a kind of nebulous concept, more an emotional argument than anything substantive. I need specific actions if we are going to judge the morality or lack thereof of the moral circumstance of rum running. Not so for carpet bombing of cities. I find that to be a rather simpler scenario to evaluate.

 

The real Mob aside, Mob Rules is one of Black Sabbath/Dio's greatest songs ever.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mWpr5N-mM

[Lilllabettt]

Bobby Baccalieri seemed like a pretty nice guy.  He killed some people, sure.  But he seemed like a sweetie pie deep down.  

 

 

not just a sweetie-pie. a hero. and all the rum runners who helped him do business - heroes all. after all they were sticking it to the feds while they opened veins and got rich.

[4588686]

not just a sweetie-pie. a hero. and all the rum runners who helped him do business - heroes all. after all they were sticking it to the feds while they opened veins and got rich.

 

 

Bobby was really more involved in Junior Sopranos loan shark business.  Eventually he became an acting under-boss for Tony Soprano which is pretty impressive considering he only ever killed one person through the whole series.  

[Lilllabettt]

have you seen the ending yet?

[4588686]

have you seen the ending yet?

 

 

I have.  What did you think of it?

[Lilllabettt]

he's dead.

[4588686]

he's dead.

 

 

Yeah :/