Consecrated Lay Person

[Zoe1188]

Hi all!
I've been discerning a vocation to religious life and am praying that I find a community that is a good fit for me. However, due to college debt and a medical condition that may or may not be chronic, I might not be able to enter a religious community. It's not completely hopeless, but I still feel like I should have a plan B so to speak.
So I've been looking into third orders and possibly lay consecrated virginity.
Is anyone here a consecrated virgin or has any experience with lay consecrated life?
If some of you are members of Third Orders I would love to hear about them!
Thanks and blessings!

[Sponsa-Christi]

There are other people here who know much more about third Orders than I do, but for a few thoughts on consecrated virginity…

 

1. It truly does warm my heart to hear of other women discerning consecrated virginity, so I mean what I’m about to say in a respectful and loving way.

 

Speaking as a consecrated virgin myself, please don’t think of consecrated virginity as a “plan B.” First of all, though I know you didn’t mean it this way, this can actually be a little bit offensive to consecrated virgins who accepted this call as their “first choice.”

 

But more importantly for your own sake, it’s good to understand that consecrated virginity really does have its own distinctive charism. Because of this, I really do feel that in order to live this vocation well, an aspiring consecrated virgin needs to have a positive sense of being called to consecrated virginity specifically—as opposed to simply trying to “make it work” as a kind of a vocational last resort.

 

Consecrated virginity is a beautiful vocation, but a challenging one. So speaking from experience, I think you really need a strong sense of consecrated virginity as God’s special will for you in order to find the strength to be faithful to this vocation in the face of the discouragements which you will inevitably face.

 

On the other hand, I think even when things are going well, a woman who has never had the experience of feeling particularly called to consecrated virginity is not going to be able to live her consecrated life quite as deeply or with quite as much vibrancy as a woman who became a consecrated virgin because she was attracted to the specific spirituality contained in the Rite of Consecration to a Life of Virginity. 

 

2. Technically, there is no such thing in canon law as “consecrated lay people.”

 

Consecrated virginity is actually a public state of consecrated life within the Church, so consecrated virgins aren’t really laywomen in the sense I think you mean here (though of course, we’re laywomen in the other sense of the word “lay,” insofar as we aren’t in Holy Orders!)

 

However, secular institutes do come fairly close to fitting this description, since they are communities of people who (usually) live in their own homes, have secular careers, and have the apostolate of being a “hidden” Christian witness as a “leaven in the world.” But like consecrated virginity, the call to join a secular institute is its own special vocation, and not something that one would choose in case religious life became an impossibility.

 

3. I’m not trying to play spiritual director here, but my thought is that if you feel called to religious life, you should try the best you can to follow that path single-heartedly. If God is calling you to become a religious, He can remove obstacles in amazing ways you might never expect. And if God does send you a firm “no,” then you can have much more peace in knowing that He might be inviting you to discern other paths. But if you start considering “plan B”s too soon, you might be unconsciously setting your own limits on what God in His Providence can accomplish in your life.

[Zoe1188]

Sponsa-Christi,

I'm very sorry if my post offended you or any consecrated virgins. I did not, mean to make it sound like Consecrated Virginity is a "lesser vocation" by any means. From what I have read it is a very beautiful and noble vocation that I would love to learn more about. I think there is a general misunderstanding about the vocation. I was told by the superior of a religious order at one time that consecrated virginity usually was a last resort for women who could not enter a religious community for whatever reason.
I'm sorry that this stereotype exists and is perpetuated by members of the church.
I would still love to hear more about your experiences as a CV and about the charism.

Love and Blessings!

[OnlySunshine]

Hi all!
I've been discerning a vocation to religious life and am praying that I find a community that is a good fit for me. However, due to college debt and a medical condition that may or may not be chronic, I might not be able to enter a religious community. It's not completely hopeless, but I still feel like I should have a plan B so to speak.
So I've been looking into third orders and possibly lay consecrated virginity.
Is anyone here a consecrated virgin or has any experience with lay consecrated life?
If some of you are members of Third Orders I would love to hear about them!
Thanks and blessings!

 

You and I are in essentially the same boat.  I don't have student debt but I have a medical condition that is preventing me from joining religious life.  I have had depression since 1999 and I'm on medication for it.  As such, it is well-controlled, but religious orders are unwilling to take me because of the medical costs and worry that I might worsen while in the convent.  I almost was accepted in 2009 by a Carmelite community but I had a major problem with their apostolate working with mentally disturbed children and that caused me anxiety.  So, I withdrew my application from them and applied to another community of Sisters within my parish in 2012 but was denied admission to formation due to my ongoing depression.

 

Right now, I'm a full-time student at a 4-year university and I'm working on finding employment or a volunteer position.  I'm still very much attracted to Consecrated Life so I felt the call to look into Consecrated Virginity on the advice of the Sisters in my parish.  I'm in contact with a Consecrated Virgin in Rapid City, SD that my Sisters put me in touch with and she has been a HUGE help!  She has answered several of my questions.  The only problem is that I am unable to find a spiritual director right now but we are still working on that.  I'm also looking into 3rd Orders and I plan to make visits to the Franciscan and Carmelite groups in my diocese to see where I fit in.  ;)

 

I would love to help you in any way I can.  I do know of some orders that will consider people with chronic medical problems.  I discerned with a few but my personal circumstances put a barrier in the way.  That shouldn't deter you.  Maybe it will work out if God wills it.  Here are some links to get you started.

 

Religious Sisters of Mercy in Alma, MI (work in healthcare so they are very forgiving of medical conditions that need medication)

 

Carmelite Sisters of the Divine Heart of Jesus in Milwaukee, WI (this is the order I applied to in 2009, it didn't work for me but it may for you; the girl I was supposed to enter with takes medication for a chronic illness and is temporarily professed now)

 

Sisters of Charity of Our Lady Mother of the Church (accepted my friend who had a medical condition but she left and went somewhere else)

 

Benedictine Sisters of Grace and Compassion (same as above)

 

Sisters of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity (SOLT; same as above)

 

Please let me know if you would like more help.  As anyone will tell you on here, research is my specialty and I love to help people.  Welcome to Phatmass!  :)

Edited October 25, 2013 by MaterMisericordiae

[Sponsa-Christi]

Sponsa-Christi,

I'm very sorry if my post offended you or any consecrated virgins. I did not, mean to make it sound like Consecrated Virginity is a "lesser vocation" by any means. From what I have read it is a very beautiful and noble vocation that I would love to learn more about. I think there is a general misunderstanding about the vocation. I was told by the superior of a religious order at one time that consecrated virginity usually was a last resort for women who could not enter a religious community for whatever reason.
I'm sorry that this stereotype exists and is perpetuated by members of the church.
I would still love to hear more about your experiences as a CV and about the charism.

Love and Blessings!

 

Zoe1188,

 

No worries! I could tell that your question was very sincere and so I wasn't personally offended at all. I just wanted to let you know how some things might sound to other people.

 

And yes, it is true that for a while (and even sometimes now, unfortunately) consecrated virginity was presented as a last resort by many spiritual directors, vocations directors, religious superiors, etc. But as I mentioned above, this was is huge misunderstanding. Thinking about consecrated virginity as an "if all else fails..." kind of thing naturally isn't good for the vocation itself, and it can cause a lot of problems for the women who discern a vocation to consecrated virginity for these reasons.

 

Yet, I think it is theoretically possible that, in certain instances, a woman who can't enter religious life might still have a genuine vocation to consecrated virginity. Only in a case like this, her vocation to be a consecrated virgin would be in spite of whatever challenges kept her out of religious life, and not because of them.

 

Finally...if you're having trouble finding a religious community that can accommodate whatever special circumstances you might have, you can't do much better than to have Mater M. on your side! :) 

[krissylou]

AnneLine is a great resource on secular orders as she has been involved in formation for a secular mendicant community for many years.

 

I am in formation myself in something similar.  But I'm just IN formation.  She's much more advanced.

 

Monasteries have "oblates."  They have been around for centuries, meaning various different things.  Sometimes late vocations would enter a monastery as an "oblate" and basically live a monk or nun-like life without actually taking vows.

 

(The Passionist Nuns of Whitesville have someone like this.  I don't know but I'm guessing she wanted to enter as a nun but was rejected because of age.  I may be entirely wrong on this, but it seems a good guess.  She isn't "Sister", doesn't wear a habit (she does wear the same black dress every day, or at least every day they take pictures!) and makes her commitment for a year at a time but is very much part of the community, has been there for some years now, and seems to function much like an extern sister.)

 

More often, an oblate lives a "normal" lay life, married, regular job, regular house, etc. who lives the spirituality of that monastery in ways suitable to their state of life.

 

The whole idea of an "oblate" is drawing people IN to the spirituality of the monastery, in various ways, at various levels of intensity.  Centripetal force.

 

Secular orders came about with the mendicants (Francis and Dominic and such) and have a different outlook.  Instead of drawing people IN to the life of the friars and nuns (active sisters came later), secular orders are about sending the charism of the order OUT into the world.  After all, lay people can go places that the friars really can't and the nuns (cloistered) DEFINITELY can't.  Good thing God made a lot of us!

 

Sometimes people talk about this sort of thing as a "third order" (with the friars being First Order, cloistered nuns being Second, and the seculars as the Third Order.  I think those terms are less commonly used now than they were in previous decades, but they're pointing to the same thing.)

 

It is perfectly okay for a person who is an oblate or in a secular order to marry, and most are.  It would also be possible for such a person to make a private vow of celibacy but that would be a separate thing.

 

(There are also secular institutes where people live in the world but profess the evangelical counsels.  Most of these do require celibacy although I know of a secular institute for married couples.  They do vow chastity but faithfulness within marriage is chaste.)

 

These have been around for ages.  The first Rule for the Secular Franciscans was written by Francis!  Especially since Vatican 2, with the strong encouragement of Pope John Paul, lots of other communities who did not have a tradition of oblates or secular orders have developed associations of laypeople who share in their spirituality and collaborate with their work.  The older oblates and Secular Orders have a formal canonical status.  Newer groups (usually called "associates" but not necessarily) do not.  For some people that may be a huge issue, for others it is truly not important.  In the associate groups I've seen, there are some people for whom being an associate is a major focus of their lives.  For others it's a nice faith sharing thing that they go to once a month.  Lots of others are at various points in between.  I'm guessing this variation is pretty normal.  Don't expect EVERYONE to be super hard core, necessarily.

 

Another thing.  Sponsa Christi is right that these are separate vocations, separate callings, not "Well the doors are blocked for this, so I'll try that as a fallback."  That's not the right way to think of them.

 

However, LOTS of us have various twists and turns in our path.  And WAY more of us are generally familiar with the concept of nuns (or sisters, to be technical) than these other forms.  It could well be that people start off discerning religious communities and when that door seems to be closed that can be the impetus for also exploring these other possibilities.  That is a different thing than it being a fallback, "nun-lite."  I think we're probably all on the same page on this, but it does seem to be important to say that explicitly.

[krissylou]

Ah, Sponsa Christi was making the same point I did there at the end.

 

And yes, Mater is QUEEN OF THE RESEARCHERS!!!

[Gabriela]

(The Passionist Nuns of Whitesville have someone like this.  I don't know but I'm guessing she wanted to enter as a nun but was rejected because of age.  I may be entirely wrong on this, but it seems a good guess.  She isn't "Sister", doesn't wear a habit (she does wear the same black dress every day, or at least every day they take pictures!) and makes her commitment for a year at a time but is very much part of the community, has been there for some years now, and seems to function much like an extern sister.)

 

The woman who lives with the Passionists of Whitesville isn't an oblate. She's an "Associate". It's the only position like it in the US, hence the unique name. She's not an extern sister, because she's not a sister, but you're right that she functions very much like one. She didn't take her position because of age or a rejected application. She was called specifically to it. The sisters created it just for her, because they needed someone like her, and she needed the flexibility that position allows for. She wears a black jumper and white long-sleeve shirt that looks a lot like many orders' postulant outfits. In fact, when I first met her, I thought she must be a postulant, but she had too much responsibility for that, so I asked for an explanation.

 

I visited the Passionists of Whitesville about a year ago and their Associate was my main contact. That's how I know. She is wonderful, and a deeply spiritual person. :-)

[abrideofChrist]

While I would agree with SC that consecrated virginity is not a "fallback position" or a "plan b" for people, I would disagree that there are no consecrated lay people. It is very clear from the Church documents that consecrated members of secular institutes are consecrated lay persons. Google is your friend for verifying this. zoe1188, good luck in your search. Remember, every vocation is unique with its own specific charism. And the process for discerning 3rd orders is exactly the same as discerning the orders themselves. Hope this helps, happy hunting.

[Lilllabettt]

I know one person who is a 3rd order Franciscan ... very fulfilled, lives a very radical lifestyle indeed.

 

My advice though is to not make a plan B. Or else the good Lord may have to make you scrap that one too! :child:

[Fr. Antony Maria OSB]

Hi Zoe,

 

I'm not really adding anything new here, but I thought I'd just say that one of the monks in my monastery entered with a chronic medical condition. He had to do a lot of searching for orders/monasteries which would accept him because of it, but he eventually found ours and is very happy. You might have to do some more research in finding orders that will accept you because of your circumstances, but don't rule out religious life just because of those circumstances. 

 

God bless!

Br. Antony

[Zoe1188]

Thanks MasterM for looking up all those communities. I will definitely do research on them!

God bless!

[Catherine Therese]

Just wanted to put something out there for consideration.

I don't think it necessarily follows that a person is resorting to the notion of consecrated virginity as a fallback plan just because they look at it after religious life has fallen through. I think such a conclusion is a little post hoc ergo propter hoc, don't you? At least, that was my impression as I read through the above conversation. And even if a person initially looks at it that way, as a plan b, isn't that often how we come into a realisation of what it is that God is calling us to do? Through our own failures to do what we want, or what we THINK (mistakenly) He is calling us to do? Or perhaps its not a mistake at all... perhaps its a gradual process, the Lord drawing us through experiences that prepare us for the place at which He wants us eventually to arrive?

I don't believe this de-values the beautiful reality of life as a consecrated virgin... it just shows how even in a world that knows little of such things, God can still bring us through our experiences and confusion to see that this beautiful state of life is precisely that to which he calls more people perhaps than we typically realise?

The whole distinction between what we THINK God's plan might be, and what we later discover it to be, seems to be the key thing here.

Possible scenario:
1. handmaidX discerns correctly that the Lord is calling her to some form of consecrated life.

2. Religious life is the more familiar and widely known modality of such a life, and so that is what handmaidX tries.

3. Time, circumstances, perhaps a worsening health condition or a CLOSE-but-not-quite kinda fit with the religious community all indicates to handmaidX that she hasn't yet found where the Lord wants her to spend the rest of her life serving Him....

4. handmaidX may have clarity and realise that life in a religious community is not the form of consecration to which the Lord is calling her... or she may take some more time to achieve that clarity by perhaps trying one or more other communities. Either way she gets there.

5. handmaidX is confused - she cannot reconcile within herself her conviction that she is called to consecration with her now equal conviction that she is not called to religious life.

6. handmaidX seeks direction from someone who makes her aware of the existence of a different type of consecrated life - one that does not occur in the same fashion as religious life in community, but is consecration nevertheless! handmaidX had never really considered such a thing before... and just imagine, had she not been through steps 1-5, she may NEVER have considered it! But now? She's simultaneously attracted to the life just described to her, but moved to think "surely that couldn't be me?" because the idea is so unfamiliar

7. Over time handmaidX turns it over in her mind, lays it at the feet of the Lord in prayer, continues to work and pray as she gives the possibility room to sink in, as the idea incidentally keeps coming to the forefront of her mind, keeps knocking at the door.

8. Gradually handmaidX sees what the Lord is asking and grows into a position where she can embrace it fully and give her wholehearted "yes"


Perhaps handmaidY or handmaidZ arrived at their similar calling in a much less circumspect manner. But there are as many different paths to sanctity as there are people... likewise there must surely be as many different paths to this specific way of achieving sanctity as there are people called to this way.

Thats my thought process, anyway.
Bit of an odd way to mind-dump, I'll grant you!

(It must surely be obvious at this point that I have training in computer programming and that my present state of unemployment gives me way too much time to apply my crazy thought processes to non-technical questions. *grin* Even in THIS state of affairs, I wonder what it is that God is leading me personally to do. I have computing AND theology... what a strange combination of training! The question for me now is how to put it all at His service?)

[Catherine Therese]

*sigh* apologies again for my verbosity. mea culpa.

[OnlySunshine]

Just wanted to put something out there for consideration.

I don't think it necessarily follows that a person is resorting to the notion of consecrated virginity as a fallback plan just because they look at it after religious life has fallen through. I think such a conclusion is a little post hoc ergo propter hoc, don't you? At least, that was my impression as I read through the above conversation. And even if a person initially looks at it that way, as a plan b, isn't that often how we come into a realisation of what it is that God is calling us to do? Through our own failures to do what we want, or what we THINK (mistakenly) He is calling us to do? Or perhaps its not a mistake at all... perhaps its a gradual process, the Lord drawing us through experiences that prepare us for the place at which He wants us eventually to arrive?

I don't believe this de-values the beautiful reality of life as a consecrated virgin... it just shows how even in a world that knows little of such things, God can still bring us through our experiences and confusion to see that this beautiful state of life is precisely that to which he calls more people perhaps than we typically realise?

The whole distinction between what we THINK God's plan might be, and what we later discover it to be, seems to be the key thing here.

Possible scenario:
1. handmaidX discerns correctly that the Lord is calling her to some form of consecrated life.

2. Religious life is the more familiar and widely known modality of such a life, and so that is what handmaidX tries.

3. Time, circumstances, perhaps a worsening health condition or a CLOSE-but-not-quite kinda fit with the religious community all indicates to handmaidX that she hasn't yet found where the Lord wants her to spend the rest of her life serving Him....

4. handmaidX may have clarity and realise that life in a religious community is not the form of consecration to which the Lord is calling her... or she may take some more time to achieve that clarity by perhaps trying one or more other communities. Either way she gets there.

5. handmaidX is confused - she cannot reconcile within herself her conviction that she is called to consecration with her now equal conviction that she is not called to religious life.

6. handmaidX seeks direction from someone who makes her aware of the existence of a different type of consecrated life - one that does not occur in the same fashion as religious life in community, but is consecration nevertheless! handmaidX had never really considered such a thing before... and just imagine, had she not been through steps 1-5, she may NEVER have considered it! But now? She's simultaneously attracted to the life just described to her, but moved to think "surely that couldn't be me?" because the idea is so unfamiliar

7. Over time handmaidX turns it over in her mind, lays it at the feet of the Lord in prayer, continues to work and pray as she gives the possibility room to sink in, as the idea incidentally keeps coming to the forefront of her mind, keeps knocking at the door.

8. Gradually handmaidX sees what the Lord is asking and grows into a position where she can embrace it fully and give her wholehearted "yes"


Perhaps handmaidY or handmaidZ arrived at their similar calling in a much less circumspect manner. But there are as many different paths to sanctity as there are people... likewise there must surely be as many different paths to this specific way of achieving sanctity as there are people called to this way.

Thats my thought process, anyway.
Bit of an odd way to mind-dump, I'll grant you!

(It must surely be obvious at this point that I have training in computer programming and that my present state of unemployment gives me way too much time to apply my crazy thought processes to non-technical questions. *grin* Even in THIS state of affairs, I wonder what it is that God is leading me personally to do. I have computing AND theology... what a strange combination of training! The question for me now is how to put it all at His service?)

 

You said it in a way I couldn't but I completely understand your line of thinking.  I saw myself in handmaidX.  ;)