Hell?

[Jaime]

I think that is a profound insight.

 

I love irony.  If I become a saint I want to be the patron saint of Irony
 

[r2Dtoo]

Can I be the patron saint of atheists?

[PhuturePriest]

I want to be the Patron Saint of ridiculously good-looking people.

[r2Dtoo]

I want to be the Patron Saint of ridiculously good-looking people.

 

Bah.

[HisChildForever]

I appreciate all the comments. I apologize for not posting sooner but it was an exhausting week and I was out yesterday.

 

I have three thoughts that may or may not help.  This is speculation more than theology

 

I have noticed with our saints and their visions that their visions seem to have a personal tie to them.  Especially in their visions of hell. To exemplify this let's include St John Bosco's visions of hell.  His vision of hell involved the boys he had vowed to protect.   St Teresa of Avila was dealing directly with the impact (and newness) of protestantism.  So I'm wondering if a saint's vision of hell is impacted by the struggles they have to deal with in their lives? The reality of hell has to be different since all these visions are so diverse. 

 

Secondly, the visions of hell that we read about, read like God chose hell for these people.  I think you'll agree with your theological studies that the truth is the opposite.  People choose to reject God not the other way.

 

 

Third and final thought.  I think it's amazing that you are working with inmates.  I have a tremendous amount of respect for you for doing that. 

 

I agree, the visions do tend to paint God as a bit tyrannical. Maybe I'm looking for another word though. Blah.

 

And thank you. I honestly feel more in tune with humanity, if that makes sense.

[An Historian]

But Hell is eternal punishment for temporal sins.

 

This is what I believe is causing you conflict.  You do not have a proper understanding of the nature of sin.  Sin is temporal in that it occurs in time but it is an [i]infinite[/i] offense against God.  The reality is that sin is really that serious, that vile and that diabolical.  It is why the redemptive action of Christ on the Holy Cross was [i]necessary[/i].  The entire bedrock of Christianity rests on this truth, on the reality of sin's evilness and vileness and the impossibility of man satisfying for it on his own merit [i]because the offense committed is infinite[/i].

 

The sacrifices of the Old Law fell so far short of what was necessary.  God in His all-consuming love came down from Heaven and became Incarnate for us so as to offer a Sacrifice of infinite merit to wash away the stain and even the memory of Man's sin.  When we have a proper understanding of the profound horror that is sin we can also then come to truly appreciate the amazing truth of our redemption, of the central part the Holy Cross plays in our salvation.

 

The punishment for sin is Just.  An eternal punishment for an infinite offense.  No one forces another to sin.  We possess free will.  We cannot blame another for our choices.  If someone is in hell it is because they [i]chose[/i] it.  God will not damn a repentant soul to hell.  If we are sorry for our sins—He does not even ask for perfection contrition, it is sufficient to simply be afraid of hell to receive absolution—then God will bathe us in His Most Precious Blood and wash away our sins and we will not go to hell.

 

Remember that hell is a Just reward for our offenses and that [i]we possess absolutely no natural right to heaven or God's friendship.[/i]  We can do nothing on our own to win God's friendship and grace, we do not deserve heaven, it is a free gift of God if we would but cooperate with Him.

[r2Dtoo]

 

This is what I believe is causing you conflict.  You do not have a proper understanding of the nature of sin.  [b]Sin is temporal in that it occurs in time but it is an infinite offense against God.[/b]  The reality is that sin is really that serious, that vile and that diabolical.  It is why the redemptive action of Christ on the Holy Cross was necessary.  The entire bedrock of Christianity rests on this truth, on the reality of sin's evilness and vileness and the impossibility of man satisfying for it on his own merit because the offense committed is infinite.

 

The sacrifices of the Old Law fell so far short of what was necessary.  God in His all-consuming love came down from Heaven and became Incarnate for us so as to offer a Sacrifice of infinite merit to wash away the stain and even the memory of Man's sin.  When we have a proper understanding of the profound horror that is sin we can also then come to truly appreciate the amazing truth of our redemption, of the central part the Holy Cross plays in our salvation.

 

The punishment for sin is Just.  An eternal punishment for an infinite offense.  No one forces another to sin.  We possess free will.  We cannot blame another for our choices.  If someone is in hell it is because they chose it.  God will not beaver dam a repentant soul to hell.  If we are sorry for our sins—He does not even ask for perfection contrition, it is sufficient to simply be afraid of hell to receive absolution—then God will bathe us in His Most Precious Blood and wash away our sins and we will not go to hell.

 

Remember that hell is a Just reward for our offenses and that we possess absolutely no natural right to heaven or God's friendship.  We can do nothing on our own to win God's friendship and grace, we do not deserve heaven, it is a free gift of God if we would but cooperate with Him.

 

Are all sins "infinitely offensive", or just mortal sins?

[An Historian]

Are all sins "infinitely offensive", or just mortal sins?

 

I wasn't sure whether or not I should have specified in my post but yes I am referring solely to grave offences which would be mortal sins.  And of course the factors that contribute to making something a mortal sin also have to been borne in mind.  One has to [i]know[/i] that it is a mortal sin for one to commit a mortal sin, they have to know it's a grave offense, etc.  And they have to freely choose to commit the act anyway.  People with mental illnesses, without the use of reason, etc., cannot commit mortal sins.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Even God cannot make a person happy unless they want to be.

 

 

But it still begins with God and ends with God, the alpha and omega, Jesus says " Would you like this." We say " Yes." and then Jesus gives it. The beginning and the end.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I saw this on Facebook.

 

When I pull my nose out of theology books and see the world around me -- I don't know, sometimes I feel as if doctrine is so simple or black-and-white but then I just can't see the world and people that way. Maybe it's also because of the people I work with (inmates). But it just doesn't seem so simple or even possible to lump people into one of two categories. Life is a lot more complicated than that. People are more complicated. I'm struggling with this.

 

 

I missed the this connection. I can't read about visions of hell, i can talk about it but those visions can cause me to become desparitive, i have enough temporal hell of my own from sins for and against to understand i definitely don't wan't to go there. But also i think the rainbow is the symbol of hope and tells more to the story then just plain black and white although i guess there is a definite black and white like sin is sin and virtue is virtue. But who or what warrants hell i don't know, i was lead to believe that all sins warrant hell but that with the grace of God and repentance we can avoid eternal damnation. For me Jesus kinda hints at this when he says " If you break one commandment you break them all." In the context of saying " aww it's not that bad, at least i'm not a murderer.", complacency breeds contempt i think the saying is. Jesus also warns us about this in sundays gospels about the pharisee and the tax collector in the temple, without being overly scrupulous though to the point of despair and terror. We must always hope in heaven, i think saint paul says that, and who's going to get us there " JESUS " allleluia.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

 

I wasn't sure whether or not I should have specified in my post but yes I am referring solely to grave offences which would be mortal sins.  And of course the factors that contribute to making something a mortal sin also have to been borne in mind.  One has to know that it is a mortal sin for one to commit a mortal sin, they have to know it's a grave offense, etc.  And they have to freely choose to commit the act anyway.  People with mental illnesses, without the use of reason, etc., cannot commit mortal sins.

 

 

I have a pretty serious mental illness and most definitely can commit sin . That's me anyway not talking for everyone with a mental illness.