r2Dtoo Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I think prostitution and drug use is the least of what you'll find in man. I don't buy that people only choose what is bad for them because they can't see any better. A father who abandons his children, for example, can most certainly see something better. I don't agree that heaven and hell are black and white to everybody. I linked to a clip from the movie Hellraiser in my previous post. In that story one of the premises is that the demons who appear appear as angels or demons, according to a person's pleasure...to the man who seeks the box, who seeks the pain and suffering in the box that brings forth the demons, he seeks his pleasure. Everyone has something going on inside them, whether it is mental illness or something else. But without a starting point of human responsibility, not merely human guilt but responsibility, the ability to be responsible, to deal with life, then what hope is there for us? To borrow the words of a previous poster in this thread you are talking about eternal punishment for temporal sins. As for the father who abandons his children, does he really deserve eternal suffering for that? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 To borrow the words of a previous poster in this thread you are talking about eternal punishment for temporal sins. As for the father who abandons his children, does he really deserve eternal suffering for that? Why? Why must I answer for his suffering? I do not answer for his bad decisions in this life, and I cannot answer for him in the next. But a man who could walk away from his children, most certainly could walk away from the presence of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2Dtoo Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Why must I answer for his suffering? I do not answer for his bad decisions in this life, and I cannot answer for him in the next. But a man who could walk away from his children, most certainly could walk away from the presence of God. The man who abandons his children does so because he sees his happiness not in his children but in the world outside of them. He is still choosing what he sees as happiness, it's just a selfish definition of it. Even at our most base level, we choose happiness over suffering. I just don't get this idea that someone would choose eternal suffering over eternal happiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 The man who abandons his children does so because he sees his happiness not in his children but in the world outside of them. He is still choosing what he sees as happiness, it's just a selfish definition of it. Even at our most base level, we choose happiness over suffering. I just don't get this idea that someone would choose eternal suffering over eternal happiness. We completely disagree. People go through life very much aware of what they are doing, in many different ways, and accept it for any number reasons, from cowardice to wickedness to conformity to whatever. "Eternal happiness" is not a vaccine that is applied, but something that comes out of a person's will. And even if you assume that people choose what is bad for them because they confuse it, selfishly, for happiness, then there is no reason why they cannot do that in eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I think Heaven is an acquired taste. Since the fall liking it doesn't come "naturally" to us anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Hell is an interesting concept but even though Jesus talked about it, He didn't go into great detail. 'Wailing and gnashing of teeth' indicates a state of extreme agony, but for each person, this could be brought about by different things. I had a dream once that I went to hell, and although I don't remember a lot of the detail, the overwhelming feeling I had was one of hopelessness - and if all the hope in the world were gone. It was a darkness and despair beyond words and I could feel millions of other souls around me, all feeling the same hopeless and despair. But just when I thought the pain couldn't get any worse, I thought about Jesus, and realized that for me, He was hope, and as long as I kept thinking about Him, I had hope, even in this place of hopelessness. At that point, my biggest longing was that somehow everyone else in that place could understand that Jesus was the source of all hope, because then, they too would be freed from despair. I started to feel comforted and had the sensation of rising up out of the darkness. I woke up not long after that, but it has stayed with me ever since. So I tend to go along with the idea that people put themselves in hell by rejecting God's grace. And I doubt that it is something that happens only at the point of death - but something that a person lives habitually throughout their life - denying God and His help or accepting Him. Habits are hard to break. Not impossible, because nothing is impossible for God, but being focused on love and hope and faith during one's life has got to make the transition a little easier when it comes to the end. Anyway, none of us know for sure about heaven and hell, but I like to live life with God today because eventually it will be my last day. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Hell is the consequence of choice...of free will. It's when God says to man, if you will not accept My Mercy, then YOUR will be done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 The man who abandons his children does so because he sees his happiness not in his children but in the world outside of them. He is still choosing what he sees as happiness, it's just a selfish definition of it. Even at our most base level, we choose happiness over suffering. I just don't get this idea that someone would choose eternal suffering over eternal happiness. We all have a conscience that speaks to us....Only God knows our heart and mind and can judge us without error...A man that leaves his children and never makes things right and doesn't repent will have to answer to God in the end....Will he suffer forever in hell ? Only God knows....There comes a point where you choose God or you don't....Some people are more sensitive to if they are choosing God then others....Mabey an atheist can walk away from his children and feel like he's not letting anyone down and is choosing happiness like you said....Although this man does not believe in God or acknowledge Him, God out of love still gives this man a consicence of right and wrong....They are wrote on his heart just like the Bible says....So this man will be accountable to God for his actions and if he does end up in hell it won't be that God sent him there....It will be because the man denied God his whole life and rejected his conscience for his own desires and "happiness" as you put it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 (edited) Hell is other meaple. maple syrup, sticky sitch with or without the stich. Edited October 24, 2013 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Yeah, well. wells are refreshing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2Dtoo Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 We completely disagree. People go through life very much aware of what they are doing, in many different ways, and accept it for any number reasons, from cowardice to wickedness to conformity to whatever. "Eternal happiness" is not a vaccine that is applied, but something that comes out of a person's will. And even if you assume that people choose what is bad for them because they confuse it, selfishly, for happiness, then there is no reason why they cannot do that in eternity. This makes the most sense to me. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 The man who abandons his children does so because he sees his happiness not in his children but in the world outside of them. He is still choosing what he sees as happiness, it's just a selfish definition of it. Even at our most base level, we choose happiness over suffering. I just don't get this idea that someone would choose eternal suffering over eternal happiness. Also sometimes he chooses that they would be happier without him, and mums do it too, we can get so caught up in self condemnation i think that's why some dads and mums do that and there utterly convinced that it is so. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) We completely disagree. People go through life very much aware of what they are doing, in many different ways, and accept it for any number reasons, from cowardice to wickedness to conformity to whatever. "Eternal happiness" is not a vaccine that is applied, but something that comes out of a person's will. And even if you assume that people choose what is bad for them because they confuse it, selfishly, for happiness, then there is no reason why they cannot do that in eternity. I disagree, i believe it is grace and faith not faith alone, though all things are possible to God, be careful of that self will thingy. Edited October 25, 2013 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I disagree, i believe it is grace and faith not faith alone, though all things are possible to God, be careful of that self will thingy. Even God cannot make a person happy unless they want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I think that is a profound insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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