Kateri89 Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 Yes I see what you are saying. Here's the thing though, it doesn't matter how much money you give, it has no impact on the situation. You aren't doing anyone, not even yourself, any favors by trying to pay the fine simply because it's cheaper than insurance. The only really way to deal with your dilemma is to not pay for insurance and not pay the fine either, which would be illegal, which would be sinful. Well to be fair, just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's sinful. And Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." - Mark 12:17 There are places in this world where it is illegal to celebrate Mass (I believe Saudi Arabia is one of them) but it certainly wouldn't be sinful to violate that law since Jesus commanded us to "do this in remembrance of me". Yes we are morally obliged to follow the laws of the land unless they are in direct contradiction with the laws of God which trump them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) So are you implying that you think it would be better for me to opt out and refuse to pay the fines and let them take it from my withholding's? This way it's entirely on their conscience and not my own? I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from. It's the road I will likely have to take if there is not a delay or repeal. It is a hard choice make, made easier for me, because I cannot afford it. I could pay the tax but I will not do so willingly. For me the idea is much like If salesman sales me a immoral product and I willing pay for it, that is different than if he were to take out his gun and demand my money because I refuse to buy his product. Edited October 23, 2013 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 They don't take the money, they fine you. You still make the payment. Unless you're willing to go to jail over it, I'd say you should smell of elderberries it up and get healthcare. I will not comply. And its a tax not a fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isidore_of_Seville Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I will not comply. And its a tax not a fine. okay then they will tax you. Either way it's dealt with the exact same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I think being responsible for your own medical welfare is more important with regard to medical coverage, but on a secondary level, I applaud your choice to not be a part of the evil that occurs around us. Just because it happens doesn't mean we need to have as much blood on our hands from joining in. We should have a running thread for good articles on this over the next couple months, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kateri89 Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 I think being responsible for your own medical welfare is more important with regard to medical coverage, but on a secondary level, I applaud your choice to not be a part of the evil that occurs around us. Just because it happens doesn't mean we need to have as much blood on our hands from joining in. We should have a running thread for good articles on this over the next couple months, imo. Well the thing is, even though it may not seem like it, this is the sort of stuff that can make saints. I know that sounds dramatic but changes aren't wrought because people take the road that seems easier. Not just saints but people throughout history who have done what they believed was right even if it meant a lot of suffering and hardship for them are people who brought about change. Rosa Parks was willing to go to jail for not giving her seat to a white person--fast-forward to the present day. How many people would be willing to do the same thing? Most people would be severely annoyed but would probably stand up and give their seat away because it's just "not worth it". But our society is better because of people like her. Similarly, if enough Catholics were willing to go to jail over this (the already overcrowded jails, I might mention), it would have a bigger impression on society than simply signing online petitions or calling up senators. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Well the thing is, even though it may not seem like it, this is the sort of stuff that can make saints. I know that sounds dramatic but changes aren't wrought because people take the road that seems easier. Not just saints but people throughout history who have done what they believed was right even if it meant a lot of suffering and hardship for them are people who brought about change. Rosa Parks was willing to go to jail for not giving her seat to a white person--fast-forward to the present day. How many people would be willing to do the same thing? Most people would be severely annoyed but would probably stand up and give their seat away because it's just "not worth it". But our society is better because of people like her. Similarly, if enough Catholics were willing to go to jail over this (the already overcrowded jails, I might mention), it would have a bigger impression on society than simply signing online petitions or calling up senators. Just a thought. Generally agree. Rosa Parks was an activist in the right time and place who was tired and didn't want to move. She was preceded by a pregnant teen, Claudette Colvin. It takes a lot of work to prepare for the changes following God brings to society. Every chance to let our lights shine helps prepare the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 okay then they will tax you. Either way it's dealt with the exact same way. It is to them and to you. But them stealing my money is not the same as me willingly giving to them. If a Republican President forced you to buy guns because it's a right like healthcare and or forced you to pay for a membership in the NRA. Even though that money was subsidised and used to kill the whales, blow up Captain Planet and shoot Bambie. Maybe then you could look at like I do, as an attack upon your liberty in the name of liberty, and forcing you to fund something wicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) which would be illegal, which would be sinful. please explain? in my understanding, just because something is illegal doesn't make it immoral; same goes that just because something is legal doesn't make it moral. ah, i see SrKateri already raised this point...carry on, good sirs. Edited October 23, 2013 by Lil Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 y wudnt u by health ensuranse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 lol isnt birth control like balloons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy me Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Again, if you already had health insurance, the ACA isn't actually changing anything for you as far as this whole subject goes. I just saw this thread and I can't let this go without comment. Isidore, I don't know where you are getting your information or what state you are in. For the vast majority of the US the changes and mandated inclusions dramatically change insurance options. There are a few states, about 4 or 5, that had a lot of mandates and there were not huge changes in those states. Perhaps you are in one of those. Up until the ACA, insurance was a completely state regulated industry which is why there is such a big difference between the states. I am only licensed to practice insurance in 49 of the states but that is enough to know the differences. I can tell you, the differences are huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 lol isnt birth control like balloons? [URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/desertsands/media/Interweb%20Forum%20postings/Dead-Whale-gif-cola-mentos-condom-694697_zps2dfc576d.gif.html][/URL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 No, having the money taken from you is quite different than giving it. I do agree, but I think it would be essentially equivalent to paying for whatever insurance plan, knowing that you only do so under duress. You are getting mugged already, you simply have a choice of 'getting something out of it', or getting nothing. Personal choice there, but I think they are both morally... at least on par with one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 kan u use that money to by pizzas instead of health ensuranse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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