truthfinder Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) Chiqui beat me to it; but they also have had the old Dominican Rite as well. Edited March 3, 2014 by truthfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 from the book Carmel in the United States: 1790 - 1990 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sr Mary Catharine OP Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Chiqui beat me to it; but they also have had the old Dominican Rite as well. I wonder why. The Dominican usuage is well, for Dominicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 A little background information since I used to live in the Kensington/Berkeley area and still have family nearby, so I've visited a lot. Kensington is a small, affluent suburb with large houses and lots of trees, located in the middle of very urban area. Kensington is ideal for a monastery, because the monastery should have few, if any, of the "city noises" that you'd expect in generally urban area. (There are some large park areas in the hills above Berkeley, but most of the areas where people live feel very "urban" to me. (I live on a very quiet street in a relatively quiet suburb in the Midwest, so I feel the contrast when I visit Berkeley.) I expect that the monastery will feel like an "oasis" to people who visit--the atmosphere of prayer will be enhanced by the setting. Because Kensington is close to the more urban towns of Berkeley, Albany, Oakland, etc., things like utilities, garbage collection, etc. should be easy. The nuns' will also have easy access to medical care, an outstanding hospital, etc. Right now the community is young, but as the nuns age, this will become very important. The nuns will have "the best of both worlds"--a quiet place, but with easy access to the conveniences of urban life. I don't know how accessible the nuns want their chapel to be to visitors, but because of the location, it could be very accessible without really affecting the nuns' quiet. The only downside that I can see is that the monastery is located on only 3 acres. Right now, there appears to be no parking lot, so depending on how the nuns decide to handle parking for visitors, this could take up some of the area that the nuns will be able to use for their enclosure. (It's not clear what the nuns who previously lived in the monastery did for parking. Perhaps there is a place to park off the property.) I also don't know how rural the nuns will be able to be with only 3 acres, a good part of which appears to be taken up by the monastery building. The real estate description also said the monastery was in "unincorporated Kensington" so if the town of Kensington has rules against things like chickens and other farm animals (rules that are not uncommon in urban areas or affluent suburban areas), the nuns might not be subject to those rules--although they could always apply for an exception, if there is not one already. Also most areas (including, I expect, unincorported areas) have pretty stringent rules against cutting down trees, so if the monastery doesn't already have areas set aside for planting, the nuns may have to make decisions about how they will use the land, and apply for exceptions (which could be difficult or time-consuming to get). However one incredibly wonderful thing is that the monastery appears to be in the hills, and the western side of the monastery has a view of San Francisco, the San Francisco Bay, and the Gold Gate bridge. As someone who spent my college years looking at this view, and have seen it many times since, it is wonderful and inspiring. (The view of San Francisco from the other side of the Bay has been photographed a lot, so if you haven't seen it, it should be very easy to find pictures that will give a good idea of the view.) I suspect the nuns will come to love their view. The view should "expand" the monastery and make it feel like it is on a larger acreage than it actually is. The climate in this area is very temperate--almost perfect for monastic life. The summer is usually around 80 degrees, but the fog comes in every night, so the nights are cool. There are usually a couple of weeks of intense heat in the summer, but these are rare. For example, my sister, who lives not that far away doesn't have air conditioning because she and her family don't feel they need it (they could afford it if they wanted it). When it is hot, my sister's family sleeps in the cooler lower floors of the house. Because it usually cools down at night, and because it isn't the humid heat we get in the Midwest, it is easier to handle. (Factoid: In the Bay Area, it normally doesn't rain at all from around April until around October. The downside of this is that the area can be subject to drought and wildfires, particularly in late summer. This year the drought has been exceptionally bad. The Bay Area has really only gotten rain in the past few weeks. However, for those of us who live in areas where it rains in summer, it seems almost unbelievable that in the SF Bay Area, you can plan an outdoor event in summer and KNOW it won't rain! The winters are also very temperate, rarely getting below 50 degrees. The monastery almost certainly has some form of heating system, but their need for heat will be much less than in Nebraska or Pennsylvania. Yes, the area is subject to earthquakes. The monastery is located very close to (in fact, may actually be on) the Hayward fault, which is active. When you live in the area, you get used to having small earthquakes on a regular basis. (If the nuns have been living nearby in Canyon, they are probably already used to frequent small earthquakes.) Buildings in Contra Costa County (where the monastery is located) are subject to VERY strict building regulations related to prevention of damage in case of a major earthquake. For example, you see almost no brick buildings in the area, because brick is very unstable in case of a major earthquake. The monastery is made of stucco, a very comon building material in the area. Since the monastery is not new, it has already withstood some decent sized earthquakes. Before the nuns move in, I expect that one thing that will be done is to make sure that the building is in complaince with current codes regarding earthquakes. I've met many people who have never lived in the Bay Area who find earthquakes a VERY scary thought. However, NO area of the world is completely free from the possibility of natural disaster. In the area where the nuns live, they will not get things like tornados, and probably not floods. (If the area was subject to flooding, it would have happened already.) Usually houses in the hills built on stone are less subject to earthquake damage than houses in newer areas built on landfill. (It always made me think about the Bible verses about the benefits of building on rock. :-> ) Also, even though there are lots of trees, Kensington is near enough to an urban area that I expect the closest fire station is very nearby, in case of fire due to the current drought. I hope some of you found this interesting--or at least useful. The teacher in me can't help writing things like this once in awhile. I wrote it fast, so I apologize that it is mostly "off the top of my head" and not well organized or very well edited/proofread. The Bay Area is quite unique in many ways, so I thought that those of you who weren't familiar with it might be interested in some "factoids" about the nuns' new home. I expect the nuns would be happy almost anywhere, but with this monastery, God has been exceptionally good to them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Note: I wrote the above before the newspaper article was posted. The article talks about what the former nuns did with regard to having a vegetable garden. The article clarifies that Kensington isn't a town on its own, but that Kensington itself is an unincorporated area. Still, the area is not that large, so the fire stations etc of Berkeley are relatively close by. Also, even though the area is unincorporated, it will be subject to any zoning regulations set by Contra Costa County--and I don't know what those are. According to the article, the chapel of the prior group of nuns had many visitors, so the chapel must have been accessible despite not having much parking. Although there is generally good public transportation within Berkeley, I don't know how close it is to the monastery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthfinder Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I wonder why. The Dominican usuage is well, for Dominicans. One of the priests saying Mass was a Dominican, and I believe liked saying the traditional Dominican form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Franciscan Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 Thank you, Ignatius, for all that info. I live in Walnut Creek, CA, close to Canyon and Kensington, so I found your info spot on. I don't know about anyone else, but I find that this new home of the Carmelite nuns to be - well - miraculous! Who would have thought that they would actually find a Carmelite monastery already built and so close to where they are now. God was working overtime on this one. The only thing that would make this story better is if they accepted mature vocations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneLine Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I don't know how long this info will stay on line... so enjoy it while it is here.... from some local real estate and newspaper sources.... 'Sales brochure' from November 2013: http://www.68rinconroad.com/ Newspaper article from Nov/Dec 2013: http://www.contracostatimes.com/my-town/ci_24672161/kensington-former-monastery-hits-real-estate-market Photos from Nov 2013 (related to sales articles) http://photos.mercurynews.com/2013/11/27/photos-former-carmelite-monastery-up-for-sale-in-kensington/#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marigold Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I don't know how long this info will stay on line... so enjoy it while it is here.... from some local real estate and newspaper sources.... 'Sales brochure' from November 2013: http://www.68rinconroad.com/ Newspaper article from Nov/Dec 2013: http://www.contracostatimes.com/my-town/ci_24672161/kensington-former-monastery-hits-real-estate-market Photos from Nov 2013 (related to sales articles) http://photos.mercurynews.com/2013/11/27/photos-former-carmelite-monastery-up-for-sale-in-kensington/#1 :O It's beautiful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneLine Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Yes it is but it is truly TINY! I hope it isn't in too bad disrepair, and that it works well for the purposes of the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sr Mary Catharine OP Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Tiny??? You are kidding, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Tiny??? You are kidding, right? I'm virtually sure she's kidding. After all, the monastery has 60 rooms!!!! Granted, some of the rooms are small cells for the Sisters, but there apparently are several very large rooms, as well. And, if I remember correctly from the articles, the former Community of nuns didn't use many of the rooms. Can you imagine what your Community could do with 60 rooms???!!! I can "hear" you dreaming about what you could do if the Novitiate had more rooms, not to mention more space for workrooms for soap, candles, woodworking, publishing, etc. And, perhaps you could have an office that wasn't originally a cell. (Am I remembering correctly?) It's not that you would be asking for more room for yourself, but that would be one more cell for a future postulant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneLine Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Tiny??? You are kidding, right? Well, the building is huge... but the land is 3 acres... I would think that would be VERY tiny for enclosed nuns... and did you see the size of that chapel? three chairs on each side of the center aisle? yup, I think probably tinier than you might realize.... the BUILDING Is big but I am not sure it is too functional.... idunno.... My bet is you are probably looking at 15 or 20 8x10 cells, a bunch of closets and pantries, some giant ballroom-like rooms that they have converted into choir, chapter room and refectory, etc. Add a few rest rooms and parlors, and suddenly those 60 rooms add up to a monastery that might not be as big as one might think.... However, I wish we could transport it to Summit if you could use it, Sr Mary Catherine! Edited March 4, 2014 by AnneLine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneLine Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 no, I really wasn't kidding, Iggy... I've heard (but never seen the place so I can't be sure) that it was a converted mansion that really WASN"T a purpose-built monastery.... I don't know, but I would have thought they might be able to get something a little more useable if that $$$ had been made available to get what they wanted. I seem to recall that community WANTED land so they could grow food, and I don't think that will happen on 3 acres and a monastery! Has anyone actually BEEN to the old Berkeley monastery? Is it as tiny as I suspect (60 rooms notwithstanding!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 no, I really wasn't kidding, Iggy... I've heard (but never seen the place so I can't be sure) that it was a converted mansion that really WASN"T a purpose-built monastery.... I don't know, but I would have thought they might be able to get something a little more useable if that $$$ had been made available to get what they wanted. I seem to recall that community WANTED land so they could grow food, and I don't think that will happen on 3 acres and a monastery! Has anyone actually BEEN to the old Berkeley monastery? Is it as tiny as I suspect (60 rooms notwithstanding!) Now that I think about it more, you're absolutely right. 60 rooms (of whatever size) sounds wonderful, but along with the 60 rooms, there will almost certainly be tradeoffs between what the nuns would ideally like, and what is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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