CatherineM Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 If you have ever had to use food stamps, unemployment, or disability, you tend to have a different perspective. I was flat on my back, unable to even sit up, and homeless. I called every charity in town. None would help. My family didn't care or couldn't help. Without the government's help, I would have died in a gutter. Your precious tax money helped save my life. Maybe that will make you feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 If you have ever had to use food stamps, unemployment, or disability, you tend to have a different perspective. I was flat on my back, unable to even sit up, and homeless. I called every charity in town. None would help. My family didn't care or couldn't help. Without the government's help, I would have died in a gutter. Your precious tax money helped save my life. Maybe that will make you feel better. Not really. My experience is the opposite though, I have what wavers from a deep distrust to a crippling hate of the government. I see peoples lives only getting worse once the government gets involved. I found hope in people who were willing to help. The government did nothing for me...well except drive the price of college up to an astronomical point through student loans. I loathe paying taxes and would live off the grid if I ever got the chance...even if it meant never eating a burger or using the Internet again. Charities stand back when government is seen as the "people who should help"...and in some cases they legally can't even help. Then again Florida is a special sort of state....nothing they do makes any sense to the rest of us...like harassing and arresting my brother over his legal collapsible baton. (as well seeming to be the center of every politically charged circus legal case lately) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I lived in Florida for a couple of decades. I'm pretty sure my hanging chad got thrown out. I guess I should just be grateful they allowed me to vote. Cripples are second class citizens after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I lived in Florida for a couple of decades. I'm pretty sure my hanging chad got thrown out. I guess I should just be grateful they allowed me to vote. Cripples are second class citizens after all. I never lived in Flordia, just know you did....and that the government in that state is even more messed up than most. Are you really implying that i dislike "cripples" or think people with disabilities shouldn't be able to vote? I dislike government. I think they habitually miss the mark, fail children and families and often leave disabled people, the poor, in huge cycles of poverty. One of my best friends has a heart condition which makes her rely on social security...but becuase she has a rare and debilitating heart disease they don't process her paperwork becuase they don't recognize it. She now puts "back pain" on her application. It gets approved every time. Local people know her. Food banks know her and are able to help. I've yet to see the goverment get involved and actually help someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I think that greater access to metal health-care is key, as well as the end to entitlement programs I dislike government. You must be mad that the evil government is trying to do what you want. Giving everyone access to healthcare! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 You must be mad that the evil government is trying to do what you want. Giving everyone access to healthcare! See, this is where you are wrong. I would be happy if everyone was getting acess to healthCARE. All they are getting forced into is healthINSURACE. not the same thing. 80% of medical bankrupsies are from people who had coverage rated "standard" to "excellent". Health Insurace solves none of the healtcare problems. ....that and it's worked sooooo well for MA. (not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 See, this is where you are wrong. I would be happy if everyone was getting acess to healthCARE. All they are getting forced into is healthINSURACE. not the same thing. 80% of medical bankrupsies are from people who had coverage rated "standard" to "excellent". Health Insurace solves none of the healtcare problems. ....that and it's worked sooooo well for MA. (not) Those bankruptcies are caused because the health insurance providers are allowed to change rates at their own will based on the clients medical conditions. When people get sicker, they up their rates. This is something that the ACA prevents from happening, thus solving the problem you are talking about. And youre right about the former, however healthCARE is drastically cheaper when you have healthINSURANCE. Thats the entire point of health insurance so that people can AFFORD healthcare. Do you think people should have affordable access to healthcare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Those bankruptcies are caused because the health insurance providers are allowed to change rates at their own will based on the clients medical conditions. When people get sicker, they up their rates. This is something that the ACA prevents from happening, thus solving the problem you are talking about. And youre right about the former, however healthCARE is drastically cheaper when you have healthINSURANCE. Thats the entire point of health insurance so that people can AFFORD healthcare. Do you think people should have affordable access to healthcare? Actually, in the 10,000 pages of legislation it dosn't address that at all. This isn't simply "upping rates" but the cleverly worded ways things don't get covered. Affordable healthcare? Sure. But ACA will only make matters worse. America already spends more on healthcare than any other developed nation. http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rep2/health-care-stats-to-astonish.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) Actually, in the 10,000 pages of legislation it dosn't address that at all. This isn't simply "upping rates" but the cleverly worded ways things don't get covered. Affordable healthcare? Sure. But ACA will only make matters worse. America already spends more on healthcare than any other developed nation. http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rep2/health-care-stats-to-astonish.html Haha have you read all 10k pages? You must not have https://www.healthcare.gov/how-does-the-health-care-law-protect-me/#part=10 Edited October 23, 2013 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2Dtoo Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Haha have you read all 10k pages? You must not have https://www.healthcare.gov/how-does-the-health-care-law-protect-me/#part=10 Like that matters. Blazingstar actually raised a really good point that gets overlooked in almost every single discussion we have on our healthcare system: cost. And Obamacare does absolutely nothing to address that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Like that matters. Blazingstar actually raised a really good point that gets overlooked in almost every single discussion we have on our healthcare system: cost. And Obamacare does absolutely nothing to address that. Yeah! Healthcare cost a lot!!! Especially when people are uninsured, get sick, go to the hospital, get billed for $10k, then cant pay it so it goes into our taxes! Preventative care is vastly cheaper and we need to invest in THAT! The whole point is that the more people who buy into the pot, the cheaper it will be for everyone! Thats why healthcare is so expensive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2Dtoo Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Yeah! Healthcare cost a lot!!! Especially when people are uninsured, get sick, go to the hospital, get billed for $10k, then cant pay it so it goes into our taxes! Preventative care is vastly cheaper and we need to invest in THAT! The whole point is that the more people who buy into the pot, the cheaper it will be for everyone! Thats why healthcare is so expensive! The idea that if everyone "buys into it it'll be cheaper" has never worked with insurance. No, car insurance isn't inexpensive because everyone has it, quite the opposite, only the people who own cars have car insurance. When you have a sudden surge in sick people signing up for health insurance, insurance is going to raise the price of premiums on everyone because they have to pay for the sick somehow. This idea that if we just make a law requiring everybody to have health insurance prices will drop is completely baseless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) Yeah! Healthcare cost a lot!!! Especially when people are uninsured, get sick, go to the hospital, get billed for $10k, then cant pay it so it goes into our taxes! Preventative care is vastly cheaper and we need to invest in THAT! The whole point is that the more people who buy into the pot, the cheaper it will be for everyone! Thats why healthcare is so expensive! Preventative care isn't necessary cheaper. Can it help? Yes, but only if people are willing. Everyone knows the problems with obesity, yet, for those people already using free health care including free primary care obesity is a bigger problem than with the general population. And in America, in Massachusetts, when their care came out ER visits actually tripled and primary care visits went up less than 25%. So yes, I'm very afraid of what this will do to our ER. And many hospitals deal with the bad debt themselves or send it to collection agencies. The government doesn't pay it. No. It won't. Basic economics. It's like the story of the professor with the grades...that all the grades would be averaged and people stopped trying. Some call this a hoax, but 2 of my professors actually did this with class in varying degrees. One put us in a group of 5 and offered us a C on our group project....or we could distrbute the grades A, B, C, D and F. Guess what, of the 6 groups in class all of them but one (mine) chose a C. I argued and two of my classmates took the bad grades while 3 of us got C, B, and A. It is a lie that health care is expensive because there aren't enough people. That and preventitive care, when done right, while not as expensive as an ER, is very expensive. Most people only go to the DR when needed..and that's not true preventitive care. Edited October 23, 2013 by blazeingstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) So better health care will help poverty how ? I think those on social security should get free health care but not elective surgery and elective surgery includes abortion though i do hope abortion is made illegal, and how to pay for this you need to raid the piggy banks, only the government has the power to penny pinch legally from a piggy bank, why doesn't your government do this, it is very humbling for the piggies. And a good farmer keeps his pig pens as clean as possible, without compromising the pigs rite to be a pig, the difference between a fiesta and a festa. All i'm saying is probably dim witted and i don't have any real understanding of economy in general world wide nore do i understand what kind of power each government has to penny pinch. And penny pinching is like the poor tax in monopoly, you tax the rich a bit more then you do the middle class to feed,clothe,house and water the poor. Edited October 25, 2013 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 and give them free medical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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