John Ryan Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) A person must participate in the grace which God offers to them. God extends all sorts of graces to His children, whether they be Buddhist, Jewish, or atheist. By their fruit you shall know them. I do not believe it is possible for a bad tree to bear good fruit. In that sense I think of God as a belief-pragmatist. God can be found behind so many difference symbols — even if the Roman Catholic Church is the sign and sacrament of salvation, because it offers the most perfect image of God Incarnate. I am convinced that Chinese people find God in the persona of Buddha and that non-believers are able to find God in the abstract idea of human rights — however, imperfectly these symbols may be. Edited October 22, 2013 by John Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximillion Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 IMO this ^^^^^^^^ is paramount......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 John 4: [25] And behold a certain lawyer stood up, tempting him, and saying, Master, what must I do to possess eternal life? [26] But he said to him: What is written in the law? how readest thou? [27] He answering, said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind: and thy neighbour as thyself. [28] And he said to him: Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. Acts 16: [27] And the keeper of the prison, awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the doors of the prison open, drawing his sword, would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. [28] But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying: Do thyself no harm, for we all are here. [29] Then calling for a light, he went in, and trembling, fell down at the feet of Paul and Silas. [30] And bringing them out, he said: Masters, what must I do, that I may be saved? [31] But they said: Believe in the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. [32] And they preached the word of the Lord to him and to all that were in his house. [33] And he, taking them the same hour of the night, washed their stripes, and himself was baptized, and all his house immediately. [34] And when he had brought them into his own house, he laid the table for them, and rejoiced with all his house, believing God. We must love God with our entire being, and to do so necessarily entails loving our neighbours, being baptised, submitting ourselves to the Church, etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ryan Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Christ's gospel was not focused so much on worshiping Him, as St. Paul preached, but rather about participating in the Grace of God in one's life. Love God, who by this time in history was conceived of as cerebral and not very tribalistic, and Love your Neighbor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Christ's gospel was not focused so much on worshiping Him, as St. Paul preached, but rather about participating in the Grace of God in one's life. Love God, who by this time in history was conceived of as cerebral and not very tribalistic, and Love your Neighbor. Paul was just as inspired as were the evangelists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ryan Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Paul was just as inspired as were the evangelists. I am not doubting St. Paul's inspiration. St. Paul is central to the Christian faith. It is within his writings that we find the idea of atonement, without which Christian theology makes little sense. Yet, I do tend to believe that St. Paul became caught up in an exclusionary framework in his struggle against the persecuting Jewish establishment. The tone of many of the letters is not to associated with non-believers — in this case, Jews loyal to the Pharisees. Such a proposition does not appear commensurable with the open-table policy of Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 worshiping God and loving God should not be in any way juxtaposed as if they are at all mutually exclusive. our worship of God is inspired by our love of Him, it is the proper response to loving God to want to worship Him. there may be some point about a different emphasis in the letters of St. Paul compared to the gospels, but to in any way suggest that it's possible to love God without worshiping Him is utter nonsense in a Christian theological context--if you love God, you will worship Him.... if you don't worship Him, you don't really love Him. they are totally intertwined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Christ's gospel was not focused so much on worshiping Him, as St. Paul preached, but rather about participating in the Grace of God in one's life. Love God, who by this time in history was conceived of as cerebral and not very tribalistic, and Love your Neighbor. I don't know what else to call leaving everything behind and following and obeying everything a man says, except to worship him. That's precisely what Christ demanded of the Apostles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ryan Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 worshiping God and loving God should not be in any way juxtaposed as if they are at all mutually exclusive. our worship of God is inspired by our love of Him, it is the proper response to loving God to want to worship Him. there may be some point about a different emphasis in the letters of St. Paul compared to the gospels, but to in any way suggest that it's possible to love God without worshiping Him is utter nonsense in a Christian theological context--if you love God, you will worship Him.... if you don't worship Him, you don't really love Him. they are totally intertwined. It is utter nonsense for a Roman Catholic, but not utter nonsense for somebody from China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 it's utter nonsense in Christian theology, though, no matter where you are in the world. sure, there are other religions in which people worship without loving, but that's not true worship as the only true worship of God is in love through Jesus Christ. there is a point to be made that one should make sure that their worship is done in love... it's possible for someone to worship without love (and that's not true worship), but it's not possible to truly love God without worship. because worship is love (edited to add: or at least true love of God always inspires worship, I should say it that way)... it's not possible for anyone who claims to be Christian, anyway. as far as people outside of Christianity--that is a valid Christian critique of other religions that we should bring into any kind of inter-religious dialogue--the Gospel of Jesus Christ announces God's profound love for humanity, and how our relationship with Him can be a loving one as sons and daughters of God... how our worship of Him can be filled with love and the participation in the Divine Energies of His Grace... how worship without love is dead and lifeless because God is love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToJesusMyHeart Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Christ's gospel was not focused so much on worshiping Him, as St. Paul preached, but rather about participating in the Grace of God in one's life. Love God, who by this time in history was conceived of as cerebral and not very tribalistic, and Love your Neighbor. A person must participate in the grace which God offers to them. God extends all sorts of graces to His children, whether they be Buddhist, Jewish, or atheist. By their fruit you shall know them. I do not believe it is possible for a bad tree to bear good fruit. In that sense I think of God as a belief-pragmatist. God can be found behind so many difference symbols — even if the Roman Catholic Church is the sign and sacrament of salvation, because it offers the most perfect image of God Incarnate. I am convinced that Chinese people find God in the persona of Buddha and that non-believers are able to find God in the abstract idea of human rights — however, imperfectly these symbols may be. It is utter nonsense for a Roman Catholic, but not utter nonsense for somebody from China. smells phishy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ryan Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 it's utter nonsense in Christian theology, though, no matter where you are in the world. sure, there are other religions in which people worship without loving, but that's not true worship as the only true worship of God is in love through Jesus Christ. there is a point to be made that one should make sure that their worship is done in love... it's possible for someone to worship without love (and that's not true worship), but it's not possible to truly love God without worship. because worship is love (edited to add: or at least true love of God always inspires worship, I should say it that way)... it's not possible for anyone who claims to be Christian, anyway. as far as people outside of Christianity--that is a valid Christian critique of other religions that we should bring into any kind of inter-religious dialogue--the Gospel of Jesus Christ announces God's profound love for humanity, and how our relationship with Him can be a loving one as sons and daughters of God... how our worship of Him can be filled with love and the participation in the Divine Energies of His Grace... how worship without love is dead and lifeless because God is love. I am not challenging the issue that love and worship are concomitant. I am doubting that love/worship are an exclusively Christian phenomenon, and that non-Christian love/worship is not a part of salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 (edited) smells phishy... Some lines more than others. Lemon? Tartar sauce? Edited October 24, 2013 by Light and Truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Christ's gospel was not focused so much on worshiping Him, as St. Paul preached, but rather about participating in the Grace of God in one's life. Love God, who by this time in history was conceived of as cerebral and not very tribalistic, and Love your Neighbor. Do you know what? I love you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now