thepiaheart Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Oh, this was a toughie to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 "Buy the pants!" Oh, my...yes, I see where this has happened in my own life. Right now I've got my family to help...but still...that is a serious arse-kicking article, ThePiaHeart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToJesusMyHeart Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 They taught us this in Samuel Group and the Sister who was teaching us was so anxious about the lesson because she knew it was such a touchy and seemingly outrageous thing to say. I'm glad she said it though, even if the entire room went cricket silent and super awkward. Great article! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 They taught us this in Samuel Group and the Sister who was teaching us was so anxious about the lesson because she knew it was such a touchy and seemingly outrageous thing to say. I'm glad she said it though, even if the entire room went cricket silent and super awkward. Great article! What is the "this" that he's trying to explain? I read it and found his article to be a bit rambling. I guess his points didn't jump out to me. I'd like to know what's jumping out to other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneLine Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Brother Gabriel! I know him! He's a great guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniJesuAmorMi Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 What is the "this" that he's trying to explain? I read it and found his article to be a bit rambling. I guess his points didn't jump out to me. I'd like to know what's jumping out to other people. This part: "Remember, you’ll never discover your vocation in your own head. Stop over-thinking it! Follow the example of our Blessed Mother. When God calls, answer. After you answer, ponder. While you ponder it follow Him wherever He leads you. Be at peace. Abandon yourself to God’s will and you will undoubtedly save your own soul and win the salvation of many more. Make a choice and live it." :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comingback Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Wow. Thank you for posting this. It has really made me think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Excellent article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresaThoma Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Oh yes the Order of Perpetual Discerners.... This is definitely something that I needed to hear right now! I definitely agree with the main point of his article, that many people are discerning but not enough are deciding. However I have to disagree with him about his comments on marriage, in my opinion he made it sound like that marriage is just for those who "can't cut it" in religious life. Even though he was saying we shouldn't disparage the vocation of matrimony I felt like he was doing just that. Something else that I think that the Church in general needs to take a good hard look at is the monetary costs to enter a community. Often there is a dowry or health insurance during postulancy and if a young man or woman doesn't have support from their family then it can be extremely hard to find the funds to cover those costs. These "trial" periods can be very costly on top of the money spent traveling to discernment visits. Young people are understandably cautious about visits and entering because of the money involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToJesusMyHeart Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 (edited) . Nevermind. Text walls don't work well. Edited October 20, 2013 by ToJesusMyHeart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Oh yes the Order of Perpetual Discerners.... This is definitely something that I needed to hear right now! I definitely agree with the main point of his article, that many people are discerning but not enough are deciding. However I have to disagree with him about his comments on marriage, in my opinion he made it sound like that marriage is just for those who "can't cut it" in religious life. Even though he was saying we shouldn't disparage the vocation of matrimony I felt like he was doing just that. Something else that I think that the Church in general needs to take a good hard look at is the monetary costs to enter a community. Often there is a dowry or health insurance during postulancy and if a young man or woman doesn't have support from their family then it can be extremely hard to find the funds to cover those costs. These "trial" periods can be very costly on top of the money spent traveling to discernment visits. Young people are understandably cautious about visits and entering because of the money involved. Some really good points there TT. I didn't want to criticize the article because he did make some good points but I have a few issues with what he writes. I have seen discussions about this article on other web sites as well, so at least he has people talking about the subject. One of the things that he doesn't address, and perhaps this is because men's communities have different challenges than women's ones, is just what you mention - the expenses. It isn't easy to pop in and out of communities because that involves major life changes, just in giving up apartments, or leaving home, car, studies, etc and then returning to these if things don't work out. I could be misreading him, but it sounds as if he is saying that if instead of trying to discern thoughtfully - just jump into a community and see how it works out. I have done this several times, and I am not sure that this is any more of a solution that what he calls the 'perpetual discernment'. Perhaps there is a balance between never entering and always entering? :P Let's just give a 'for instance' example. Suppose you are interested in a community and they invite you for a visit. The cloistered communities I have visited have always wanted a loooong visit - and they don't seem to understand just what this means to a person who is in the world. The Carmel in Australia wanted me to spend 3 months as a live-in. This meant giving up my job and my flat, which I shared with another person. Then I had to return to my abandoned life (their procedure was to leave again) and think about whether I wanted to enter or not. Well, it's kind of hard to really think clearly when one has no job and no flat (I was staying with my sister since I had no place of my own anymore) - the decision becomes more one of -- well, do I go out and get another job and flat while I make up my mind, or should I bite the bullet and go back? The scales are tipped a bit heavily in favor of returning, even if there are signs that this might not be a good idea. On another occasion I was invited to do a 3 month visit with a Benedictine community in the US. So, once again, I had to give up my flat and also my car this time, but fortunately I was able to continue working at a casual online job for income, which I had to have to pay for health insurance (required by the community). During this visit, I was not actually allowed to 'live-in'. I lived in a guest house and never actually saw behind the cloister walls. The good thing about this situation was that when the visit was over, I still had some income from my online job. At one Carmel, I went for a 2 week visit, but at the end of two weeks, the Prioress came and told me that they had voted to accept me as a postulant and I was to come with her and change into my postulant outfit. I never even formally asked for entrance! But because of what they had done, I felt pressured to stay. I had left another job and it made economic sense to stay instead of returning to family and the search for a job and place to stay, but I knew these were the wrong reasons and I shouldn't. I lasted two months before it became absolutely clear that I didn't belong there. So, what I am trying to say is that, while I totally get his point about not living life as a perpetual discerner, it isn't quite as easy to pop into a community as he says it is - just to check it out - without there being repercussions. There are financial considerations involving one's current life, debts, health insurance etc. And the emotional stress of 'returning to the world' after actually entering a community is a lot harder (at least for me) than just visiting one - even though long live-in visits have their own stresses and disadvantages - at least they don't feel quite as much of a failure. And would this kind of advice work for marriage? You want to know if you're compatible- get married - if it doesn't work, leave. Or if that's too over the top - just live together?? Yeah, I'm exaggerating, but I just don't think it's as simplistic as he makes it out to be. Visits are necessary - but one shouldn't feel pressured to enter just to get off the discernment roundabout. This is a major life decision, and although it may appear to be narcissistic, it might also just be survival. But he does give everyone pause for thought about discernment, and that has to be a good thing. And maybe men's communities are different - I don't know. I just wouldn't be too black and white about the whole thing. Taking time isn't necessarily a bad thing. Otherwise all communities would just open their doors and let everyone come in and 'try their vocation' any time they want. And they don't - they are just as selective as the candidates are these days. I know, TL:DR :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Actually, on further thought, I am wondering what everyone thinks is the ideal amount of time for a visit? I am pretty confident that I can make a decision about a community and whether I would fit in, during a two week live-in visit. I might be able to do it within a week, but I find it takes me a week just to get familiar with the routine and the community culture and I start to relax them during the second week. I know for sure I don't need 3 months, or even 2 months. 2-3 weeks might be ideal but I am pretty confident that 2 weeks would do it for me. And a 2 week visit would mean not having to give up flat or car or job etc... it could be done during a vacation. What do others think? This might be a very individual thing but I'm curious. How long does it take you to make up your mind about a situation, like a new job, school, community etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 TT a nunsense, you both have brought up excellent points with issues that can arise while discerning religious life. It can be costly & at this particular job I have, I'm not certain I could get a leave of absence for three months, let alone any time outside of ordinary vacation time. In my dreams, I would be wealthy enough to zip around the world for awhile & be visiting communities & not have to worry about an income or a place to live when I came back! :hehe: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 TT a nunsense, you both have brought up excellent points with issues that can arise while discerning religious life. It can be costly & at this particular job I have, I'm not certain I could get a leave of absence for three months, let alone any time outside of ordinary vacation time. In my dreams, I would be wealthy enough to zip around the world for awhile & be visiting communities & not have to worry about an income or a place to live when I came back! :hehe: Yes, I totally forgot to mention airfares, which can be the biggest expense of all - not to mention that during the visit, there isn't any income coming in (unless one gets vacation pay), and yet there are still rent and utility expenses (and probably many others) continuing during the time away. Nothing is impossible for God, but there always seems to be some price to pay. :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now