When Faith Becomes An Ideology - Pope Francis

[Aloysius]

http://www.romereports.com/palio/pope-when-faith-becomes-an-ideology-it-can-make-christians-hostile-and-arrogant-english-11368.html#.UmEtzvmkyFA

 

“The faith becomes ideology and ideology frightens. Ideology chases away the people. It creates distances between people and it distances the Church from the people. But it is a serious illness, this Christian ideology.” -Pope Francis

 

This is something I've tried to articulate before quite a few times, when I would talk about how people try to turn Catholicism into a "political block", but never had the exact right words... I really like the way Pope Francis said it here.  It's a really good point we should all try to keep in mind.

 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

St Paul " beware of those whom claim knowledge saves."

 

I guess knowledge is ok but it is faith,hope and grace that saves, a real relationship with God being Gods invitation to man (grace), and mans yes to that invitation (faith), and how man distributes this new found grace (hope). I guess knowledge falls under the class of hope but on it's own is pretty useless and is not the only focus of hope. But am reminded also of when saint paul says " and these will remain, faith, hope and love but the greatest of these is love/charity." That's what i got out of what the holy father has stated and in my inabilities probably haven't revealed anything much. Thankyou for the post Aloysius, has helped me to believe i am on the right path.

 

God bless

Onward christian souls.

Jesus iz LORD.

 

 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

<edit> P.s. i just get also from the simple word ideology that we can have ideals of what and were our Church should be and the whole well it was better back then thing when we should truely always hope to get better whether or not we have taken a step back, hopefully to learn a lesson and take two steps forward if we have. That word is beautiful ideology, it also culminates for me in the word scruples and how we can be over scrupulous on ourselves and on others at times, to the point of crucifying others and driving them away and not closer, like if you wan't to crucify yourself so be it though i don't recommend it even though we must be mindful of our faults at times, and i guess the devil crucifies us at times, but we must not be in the business of crucifying others.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[CrossCuT]

BG posted this on FB earlier, it was a nice read!

[Era Might]

Yeah, I'm more and more convinced that when a Christian finds himself in any situation, his first duty is mercy, compassion, and love. And from that, he can build on other things like discipleship, community, moral life, etc. But when a Christian comes to a situation with an ideology, a conception that he wants to impose, then the Gospel has no room to breathe. This, I think, is what St. Paul meant when he talked about becoming all things to all men. The story of the woman taken in adultery is very scandalous for Christians today, I think. In that moment Christ does not take the opportunity to sermonize on the 10 commandments or uphold the honor of the pharisees. He enters into the moment and in a few simple words, humbles everyone present, and opens up a way to a new life for the woman herself. A Christian with an ideology could never enter that situation with the same mind of Christ.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Era Might

[dUSt]

I think it's like a classroom. The teacher will ask the students to behave, and then she will point to the rules so the students who are still having trouble are reminded how to do that. The teacher wouldn't come in and say "follow the rules" from the start.

 

The other extreme is throwing away the rules all together. This is what the "spiritual but not religious" crowd has done.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I think it's like a classroom. The teacher will ask the students to behave, and then she will point to the rules so the students who are still having trouble are reminded how to do that. The teacher wouldn't come in and say "follow the rules" from the start.

 

The other extreme is throwing away the rules all together. This is what the "spiritual but not religious" crowd has done.

 

Very true.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

<edit> After your teacher wizz(wisdom) dUSt i thought on my previous post i felt i needed to add discipline and/or humble rebuke of person/s breaking certain rules is not crucifying, it is teaching, Jesus often humbly rebuked people and warned of disciplinary measures(hell) to be taken if the rebukes weren't headed.

[dUSt]

<edit> After your teacher wizz(wisdom) dUSt i thought on my previous post i felt i needed to add discipline and/or humble rebuke of person/s breaking certain rules is not crucifying, it is teaching, Jesus often humbly rebuked people and warned of disciplinary measures(hell) to be taken if the rebukes weren't headed.

 
You might as well have wrote:
 
<edit>Afteryourteacherwizz(wisdom)dUStithoughtonmypreviouspostifeltineededtoadddisciplineand/orhumblerebukeofperson/sbreakingcertainrulesisnotcrucifying,itisteaching,Jesusoftenhumblyrebukedpeopleandwarnedofdisciplinarymeasures(hell)tobetakeniftherebukesweren'theaded.

[Basilisa Marie]

I think Tab's saying "Yes, quite right, I agree! We see from scripture that Jesus did that as well, as he often rebukes people when they need it and offers disciplinary measures when they don't listen (i.e. opening a can of whoop-*** on the Temple)"

 

I think.   :)


Ideology is more often about division than it is about community.  It's the kind of thing that focuses more on winning arguments than actual conversion, and turns itself into some kind of perverted competitive litmus test of who is "Catholic enough" or "pro-life enough" or whatever.  I think elements of ideology could be a good thing, insofar as it helps people organize their minds and make distinctions when they're necessary and helpful, insofar as Christian ideas are different from Muslim ideas and Catholic ideas are different from Lutheran ideas, etc.  But if we make ideology more important than faith, we forget that so much of this is about relationships, between the person and God and the person and the community (i.e. Church).  Ideology could be the well-trained dog owned by it's master, Faith.  

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

 
You might as well have wrote:
 
<edit>Afteryourteacherwizz(wisdom)dUStithoughtonmypreviouspostifeltineededtoadddisciplineand/orhumblerebukeofperson/sbreakingcertainrulesisnotcrucifying,itisteaching,Jesusoftenhumblyrebukedpeopleandwarnedofdisciplinarymeasures(hell)tobetakeniftherebukesweren'theaded.

 

 

? i don't get it ? The wizz thing was directed at you, the rest was adding to my previous post about crucifying.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

<edit> but now on second look i missed a comma after dUSt ,so now i understand. You all would make seriously bad primary school teachers  :P Now i'm going back to my sand box to play.

[AnneLine]

Tab, I love you.  :heart:     I generally can get what you are saying when I think of your posts like impressionist art... you just gotta stand back and take in the whole picture.   Usually I get it.  :winner:

[AccountDeleted]

Stephen Colbert: 

"And the Pope is constantly talking about how the Church doesn't need to be so dogmatic, or hierarchical.

Which forces me to ask the eternal question, 'Is the Pope Catholic?'

And if not, where are bears going to the bathroom?"

:p