I Don't Understand Indulgences. Please Explain.

[Gabriela]

anyway in all seriousness, as regards to the sins just against God--yes they are forgiven, but they still damaged you.  God of course completely forgives you when you come to him in contrition for a sin... but if that sin was blasphemy, you have damaged yourself by it, because blasphemy is bad for your soul... so God forgives you, of course, but the damage done to your soul still needs fixed.  when we speak of 'temporal punishments' due to sin, those are medicinal 'punishments'... like how the fires of purgatory are meant to purify you and make you perfect so that you can enter heaven.

 

the analogy might work better if you take away the neighbor and say you live in a rented house, and you break your own window in that house.  the landlord (God) might forgive you for it, but you also have to fix the window (the damage to your soul)... the landlord of course helps you and provides you the tools to fix the broken window (indulgences)... the landlord forgiving you for the act doesn't fix the window, it just fixes your relationship with the landlord, but the window also needs fixed.

 

yes, the idea of buying indulgences was a bad one... it came out of a twisted logic where they reasoned that donating to the Church was a good act, so they could attach an indulgence to the good act of making a donation to the Church... which obviously was going to get out of hand and become simony.... 

 

here's a good list of indulgenced prayers and works:

http://www.catholic.org/clife/prayers/indulgw.php

 

the Apostolic Penitentiary and your local dioceses from time to time do issue other indulgences related to specific times and places.

 

Ok, I think I get it now. This is the answer I was expecting, but just wanted to be sure! (Good adjustment to the analogy, btw! :-)

 

One final question: I'm reading a book about consecration to Mary, and it says that, if you do this, you don't get to decide where your graces and such go anymore. You give them to Mary. Obviously Mary's going to handle them better than you could, but there is a feeling of "Uhhh... but what if I really need to fast for my [loved one]? I can't decide anymore that that fast is for [loved one]. I have to hand it over to Mary and she gets to decide."

 

Is that right? I mean, I love Mary and all (I wouldn't be considering consecration if I didn't), but I do like to "set my own intentions" in some extreme cases.

 

Does that make sense? Hopefully this isn't gibberish...

Edited October 19, 2013 by curiousing

[Basilisa Marie]

Ok, I think I get it now. This is the answer I was expecting, but just wanted to be sure! (Good adjustment to the analogy, btw! :-)

 

One final question: I'm reading a book about consecration to Mary, and it says that, if you do this, you don't get to decide where your graces and such go anymore. You give them to Mary. Obviously Mary's going to handle them better than you could, but there is a feeling of "Uhhh... but what if I really need to fast for my [loved one]? I can't decide anymore that that fast is for [loved one]. I have to hand it over to Mary and she gets to decide."

 

Is that right? I mean, I love Mary and all (I wouldn't be considering consecration if I didn't), but I do like to "set my own intentions" in some extreme cases.

 

Does that make sense? Hopefully this isn't gibberish...

 

I've heard the same thing, too.  The explanation I've heard is that Mary also takes your desires into consideration. You're the one who freely chooses to give all your graces to her to do with as she sees fit. You can also ask her to give some to your loved ones. :) 

[Gabriela]

I've heard the same thing, too.  The explanation I've heard is that Mary also takes your desires into consideration. You're the one who freely chooses to give all your graces to her to do with as she sees fit. You can also ask her to give some to your loved ones. :)

 

Oh. So you "have to" hand them over to her, but you can request they go to a certain person? I can't see why she wouldn't oblige you. Would there be any reason?

[Nihil Obstat]

Oh. So you "have to" hand them over to her, but you can request they go to a certain person? I can't see why she wouldn't oblige you. Would there be any reason?

There is a big element of trust, that the Blessed Mother knows better than you where your prayers and graces are most desperately needed. And at the same time we should keep in mind that we should not treat grace as a scarce resource that needs to be rationed.

[Gabriela]

here's a good list of indulgenced prayers and works:

http://www.catholic.org/clife/prayers/indulgw.php

 

I looked at this and... well... huh. It seems to me like the best policy is just this:

 

Sin as little as possible.

Pray as much as possible.

Do as many good works as possible.

Don't worry.

 

But if that's the best policy, why bother with indulgences at all? Looking at that list, it seems like there's a strong danger of indulgences leading to some kind of Catholic utilitarian calculus. And yet, no one knows how many "days" in purgatory "two counts" of gossip will get you, so what's the point of saying any prayer/doing any deed for the specific purpose of gaining an indulgence to remit punishment for a particular sin? Again, the best policy just seems to be to love God and your neighbor, do everything you can for both of them, and let God do the math. Maybe indulgences are intended for "some other kind of Catholic" than I am...? I can't imagine anyone keeping score that way, though.

 

There is a big element of trust, that the Blessed Mother knows better than you where your prayers and graces are most desperately needed. And at the same time we should keep in mind that we should not treat grace as a scarce resource that needs to be rationed.

 

Grace is certainly not scarce—praise God!—but my ability to do good deeds and my time to pray certainly are! But that goes back to what I said above: If one starts "doing the math", it would seem to lead to legalism of a sort. No?

Edited October 19, 2013 by curiousing

[Gabriela]

BTW, I can totally see our Blessed (Jewish) Mother copping an attitude on one of her consecrees (is that a word?): "So, you said you're handing all this stuff over to me, but now you want to 'make a suggestion' about how I use it?!" :-P

Edited October 19, 2013 by curiousing

[Nihil Obstat]

Grace is certainly not scarce—praise God!—but my ability to do good deeds and my time to pray certainly are! But that goes back to what I said above: If one starts "doing the math", it would seem to lead to legalism of a sort. No?

Imo no. Your time may be scarce, but your capacity for gaining grace is not. You can gain an infinite amount of grace with the correct disposition.

[Aloysius]

indeed, a single plenary indulgence is all you actually need for yourself... problem is they're hard to get because you must be completely free of attachment to sin, even venial sin... but attempted plenary indulgences are still partial if you didn't meet that criterion... but if you obtained a plenary indulgence you'd have fixed all the broken windows in your past... doesn't mean you won't possibly break them again one day though :P ;)

[Nihil Obstat]

indeed, a single plenary indulgence is all you actually need for yourself... problem is they're hard to get because you must be completely free of attachment to sin, even venial sin... but attempted plenary indulgences are still partial if you didn't meet that criterion... but if you obtained a plenary indulgence you'd have fixed all the broken windows in your past... doesn't mean you won't possibly break them again one day though :P ;)

I have read some opinions saying that we typically interpret "all attachment to sin" fairly generously. As in "right this second I have a positive desire never to sin again" sort of thing.
I cannot back that up with anything authoritative. But I do recall reading it.