I Don't Understand Indulgences. Please Explain.

[Nihil Obstat]

Wow that WAS Fun!!

:idontknow: I had fun.
I can tell nobody else read it though. :sad2:

[Jaime]

:idontknow: I had fun.
I can tell nobody else read it though. :sad2:

 

you have a very pretty wedding video

 

 

 

almost as pretty as your bride

[Nihil Obstat]

you have a very pretty wedding video

 

 

 

almost as pretty as your bride

Well thank you.

[Basilisa Marie]

Nobody read it because they could find that page by googling.  If that's what the OP wanted, the OP would have just googled.  

OP was looking for a more simple, "human" explanation. :)   

 

In other news I'm totally stealing all of these analogies for when I have to teach teens about indulgences. :)

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

:idontknow: I had fun.
I can tell nobody else read it though. :sad2:

 

 

Not to boast but to ease your worry, i read most of it.

[CatherineM]

I wasn't really thinking about future sin. I was visualizing it as savings towards purgatory. A bit like putting money away every month for your property taxes.

[Gabriela]

:idontknow: I had fun.
I can tell nobody else read it though. :sad2:

 

 

Nobody read it because they could find that page by googling.  If that's what the OP wanted, the OP would have just googled.  

OP was looking for a more simple, "human" explanation. :)   

 

In other news I'm totally stealing all of these analogies for when I have to teach teens about indulgences. :)

 

 

I wasn't really thinking about future sin. I was visualizing it as savings towards purgatory. A bit like putting money away every month for your property taxes.

 

Actually, I did read the whole thing, and it says that you can't apply indulgences to future sins.

 

Now I have follow-up questions:

 

1) WHY do we have to suffer punishment for sins that are forgiven? I mean, if they're forgiven... ? Didn't Christ suffer to prevent our suffering and punishment? Doesn't His replace ours? What is this distinction between "eternal" and "temporal" punishments? Why make that distinction?

 

2) "In 1567 St. Pius V canceled all grants of indulgences involving any fees or other financial transactions." So, is it still forbidden to sell indulgences? If so, where do you get them? What kinds of things get you an indulgence? Is there a list somewhere of stuff you can do? Or do you have to talk to a bishop?

 

3) Is that Congregation of Indulgences still in existence?

 

I will say, Nihil, that before reading that, I was mighty skeptical of this whole thing. Yet every time I withhold judgment and just hear the Church out, She proves Herself perfectly sensible. :-)

 

I was going to ask where in the Bible this whole idea gets derived from/justified, but the article even answered that eventually. So just the above questions remain!

Edited October 19, 2013 by curiousing

[Gabriela]

To all those striking up analogies: They're helpful, so thank you! And yet, the problem with analogies, as Nihil states, is that God is not my neighbor. When God forgives me, what window is there left to repair? He forgave—it's all good. No?

[Nihil Obstat]

I will try to answer really quick and briefly. In blue.
 

Actually, I did read the whole thing, and it says that you can't apply indulgences to future sins.
 
Now I have follow-up questions:
 
1) WHY do we have to suffer punishment for sins that are forgiven? I mean, if they're forgiven... ? Didn't Christ suffer to prevent our suffering and punishment? Doesn't His replace ours? What is this distinction between "eternal" and "temporal" punishments? Why make that distinction?

Temporal punishment is the cleansing of attachment to sin in purgatory and essentially making restitution in a more complete sense than we are able to do on earth. Eternal punishment would mean hell, afaik. The temporal punishments of purgatory are cleansing.
 
2) "In 1567 St. Pius V canceled all grants of indulgences involving any fees or other financial transactions." So, is it still forbidden to sell indulgences? If so, where do you get them? What kinds of things get you an indulgence? Is there a list somewhere of stuff you can do? Or do you have to talk to a bishop?
 There is an up to date manual of indulgences, if I am not mistaken. I am not sure how to get ahold of it. You get them by doing 'certain things' like, for instance, reading Holy Scripture for a half hour. Also you have to fulfil conditions which are: be free of attachment to sin, pray for the intentions of the Pope, and receive Holy Communion. I cannot remember if confession is a requirement or not. Someone can remind me.

Certain people, mostly the Pope, can proclaim new indulgences, and there are many with long traditions associated with them. For the year of faith I believe you can receive a plenary indulgence by visiting the church in which you were baptised.
3) Is that Congregation of Indulgences still in existence?
 That is now handled by the Apostolic Penitentiary. 
I will say, Nihil, that before reading that, I was mighty skeptical of this whole thing. Yet every time I withhold judgment and just hear the Church out, She proves Herself perfectly sensible. :-)
 
I was going to ask where in the Bible this whole idea gets derived from/justified, but the article even answered that eventually. So just the above questions remain!

[Basilisa Marie]

Actually, I did read the whole thing, and it says that you can't apply indulgences to future sins.

 

Now I have follow-up questions:

 

1) WHY do we have to suffer punishment for sins that are forgiven? I mean, if they're forgiven... ? Didn't Christ suffer to prevent our suffering and punishment? Doesn't His replace ours? What is this distinction between "eternal" and "temporal" punishments? Why make that distinction?

 

2) "In 1567 St. Pius V canceled all grants of indulgences involving any fees or other financial transactions." So, is it still forbidden to sell indulgences? If so, where do you get them? What kinds of things get you an indulgence? Is there a list somewhere of stuff you can do? Or do you have to talk to a bishop?

 

3) Is that Congregation of Indulgences still in existence?

 

I will say, Nihil, that before reading that, I was mighty skeptical of this whole thing. Yet every time I withhold judgment and just hear the Church out, She proves Herself perfectly sensible. :-)

 

I was going to ask where in the Bible this whole idea gets derived from/justified, but the article even answered that eventually. So just the above questions remain!

 

1) To use a metaphor, me forgiving my brother for breaking my window fixes my relationship with him, but it doesn't fix the window. Eternal punishment has to do with the relationship, which is why if you die in a state of mortal sin (i.e. unrepentant, serious, fully-consented sin), you go to Hell, but if you repent you can go to Heaven.  But there are still all sorts of effects of your sin. Sin has real effects in the world, because it's not just about our relationship with God, it's also about our relationship with our neighbor.  If I kill someone, I can go to confession and be "right with God", but I still have to go to jail and repay my debt to society.  Indulgences are about that jail sentence, so to speak.  Indulgences are certainly not required in any way for salvation (again, because confession fixes the relationship with God and eternal consequences attached to it), but it can lessen your "time" in Purgatory.  Plus it's a great way to grow in holiness, too. 

2) Yes, you can't sell indulgences.  I think you still can get an indulgence for making a donation to the Church (i.e. donate the marble for a new altar, donate your time building the altar, etc).  The problem with selling indulgences is that it's awfully close to simony.  You can also get indulgences for saying certain kinds of prayers.  There are all kinds of ways to get  indulgences.  Try googling.  Or maybe someone else can post a good link.  You can get an indulgence for saying prayers on feast days, making a pilgrimage to a "holy" site, praying for the Pope, all sorts of holy stuff. 

3) Good question.  I don't *think* so, but some remnant of it might exist. 

[Basilisa Marie]

To all those striking up analogies: They're helpful, so thank you! And yet, the problem with analogies, as Nihil states, is that God is not my neighbor. When God forgives me, what window is there left to repair? He forgave—it's all good. No?

 

God doesn't like it when you break your neighbor's window. :)

[Gabriela]

God doesn't like it when you break your neighbor's window. :)

 

Right, but if I sin against God only, i.e., by mental blasphemy or something... Then God forgives me. If the sin was between just me and God, why must there be a punishment if I'm forgiven?

[CatherineM]

I'm not talking about future sins. I'm talking about accounting. There's no way we could ever do enough deposits to cover all our sins. Think of it like we are always in overdraft.

Never mind.

[Aloysius]

haha but what if there's a run on the bank... and should we have a gold standard for the Treasury of Indulgences?   :shock:

[Aloysius]

anyway in all seriousness, as regards to the sins just against God--yes they are forgiven, but they still damaged you.  God of course completely forgives you when you come to him in contrition for a sin... but if that sin was blasphemy, you have damaged yourself by it, because blasphemy is bad for your soul... so God forgives you, of course, but the damage done to your soul still needs fixed.  when we speak of 'temporal punishments' due to sin, those are medicinal 'punishments'... like how the fires of purgatory are meant to purify you and make you perfect so that you can enter heaven.

 

the analogy might work better if you take away the neighbor and say you live in a rented house, and you break your own window in that house.  the landlord (God) might forgive you for it, but you also have to fix the window (the damage to your soul)... the landlord of course helps you and provides you the tools to fix the broken window (indulgences)... the landlord forgiving you for the act doesn't fix the window, it just fixes your relationship with the landlord, but the window also needs fixed.

 

yes, the idea of buying indulgences was a bad one... it came out of a twisted logic where they reasoned that donating to the Church was a good act, so they could attach an indulgence to the good act of making a donation to the Church... which obviously was going to get out of hand and become simony.... 

 

here's a good list of indulgenced prayers and works:

http://www.catholic.org/clife/prayers/indulgw.php

 

the Apostolic Penitentiary and your local dioceses from time to time do issue other indulgences related to specific times and places.