Republican Party Favorability Sinks To Record Low

[God the Father]

so your solution is let them die as long as its all about me, me, me?  All you care about it yourself?  You don't care about helping your fellow man?  You don't care about others in general?

 

And your solution is to save them, as long as you don't have to cover the bill yourself? As long as somebody else pays for the medicine and expertise? It costs a quarter* to feed a child per day. My suggestion to you, your holiness, is to cancel your phone, internet, and cable, and never drive anywhere besides work, and use the savings to feed thousands of hungry children. Is your comfort, bought with the money you earned, just too important to you? But havok, they're starving! Don't you care about helping your fellow man? Those kids don't have a phone, they don't have TV, they can't get online, all they need is something to eat. You can save them, if you'll just put your money, rather than mine, where your mouth is.

 

It might even inspire me to ignore economic reality and support the government sticking their guns in my face for a few dollars with which to keep their precious liberal voters alive.

 

*http://www.theroadtothehorizon.org/2006/01/news-19-cents-to-feed-child-for-day.html

Edited October 12, 2013 by God the Father

[God the Father]

Essentially.  It's all been theater and grandstanding.

 

It looks like the democrats rejected that proposal though? I can't make heads or tails of it. It seems like the drama is continuing, as long as the market is closed.

[4588686]

It looks like the democrats rejected that proposal though? I can't make heads or tails of it. It seems like the drama is continuing, as long as the market is closed.

 

 

It's pretty simple.  Obama's been pretty clear about what his position.  

[God the Father]

It's pretty simple.  Obama's been pretty clear about what his position.  

 

You can't expect me to read all of these articles past the first paragraph, though. Football's on for Pete's sake.

[havok579257]

I took care of my elderly mother through the time of her illness with emphysema and lung cancer, what have you done for the elderly? I got no assistance from the government during that period, even when it meant sacrificing my own economic future. But I did what I did because I loved my mother. She was not a number to me, which is how government bureaucracy treats people (young and old alike).

 

 

not every single elderly person has family to care for them.  just like not every child has family to care for them.  what do you purpose for children who's parents are killed/die and they have no family to care for them?  or elderly who have no family to care for them?  not everyone has family to care for them when they can't care for themselves.  so what do you purpose for those people?  or did you just feel like ranting off topic and making claims of moral superiority?

[havok579257]

No, I do not want a federal takeover of insurance. It is already illegal in every state in the union for a hospital to turn a person who needs treatment away. All that Obamacare does it create a new federal bureaucracy to control health care. It gives the government power to say what can and cannot be covered in insurance policies, and then forces everyone - regardless of ability - to buy one of its insanely structured health plans. If you think health care is going to cost less with the federal government controlling it you are in for a shock.

 

 

actually your only half right about hospitals.  they can not turn your away when you need emergency services.  although they will not care for you for the long term.  like you have a medical problem and need daily medication.  the hospital will not do this.  they will give you a prescription but they will not consistently fill your medications for you.  hospitals will treat you for emergencies and for what you came in for.  although they will not treat your problems long term.  lots of time they will refer you to specialty services, although those do need money for those.  also unless your advocating someone go to the er 365 days a year so they can get blood pressure medication daily, then our current system does not work for people who need medication.  also our current system is absolutely horrible for treating the mental health of the homeless which is a huge contributor to the homeless problem.   

 

your the one who was complaining about obamacare not covering everyone, so then if that's a complaint of yours and it is a legit one, whats your solution?  how does everyone get health insurance.

[havok579257]

And your solution is to save them, as long as you don't have to cover the bill yourself? As long as somebody else pays for the medicine and expertise? It costs a quarter* to feed a child per day. My suggestion to you, your holiness, is to cancel your phone, internet, and cable, and never drive anywhere besides work, and use the savings to feed thousands of hungry children. Is your comfort, bought with the money you earned, just too important to you? But havok, they're starving! Don't you care about helping your fellow man? Those kids don't have a phone, they don't have TV, they can't get online, all they need is something to eat. You can save them, if you'll just put your money, rather than mine, where your mouth is.

 

It might even inspire me to ignore economic reality and support the government sticking their guns in my face for a few dollars with which to keep their precious liberal voters alive.

 

*http://www.theroadtothehorizon.org/2006/01/news-19-cents-to-feed-child-for-day.html

 

 

classic example of why society as a whole is falling apart today.  its all about me, me, me and my money.  screw everyone else, its my money.  why should I ever help those less fortunate then me.  why should I care about anyone but myself.  why should I be charitable. if a child loses both their parents and has no one to support them, well sucks for them. I don't care about them or anyone else but myself and my money.

 

the difference between today and the WWII generation is startling.  they cared about helping their common man and working as a whole to improve the world.  this generation only cares about me, myself and I.  sad, very sad how far we have fallen.

[CrossCuT]

Just today a catholic conservative friend of mine posted a quote that read along the lines of "no society has ever survived with parasites living off the working class."

I don't care what your political affiliation is...when we start dehuminizing the poor and calling them parasites we are turning into what is making this country a horrible place.

If you asked mother theresa if she thought the poor people she helped her charity were parasites I wonder what she would say.

It really hurts when you see people start using dehumizing tactics similar to the pro abortionists in order to justfy their actions.

[Apotheoun]

actually your only half right about hospitals.  they can not turn your away when you need emergency services.  although they will not care for you for the long term.  like you have a medical problem and need daily medication.  the hospital will not do this.  they will give you a prescription but they will not consistently fill your medications for you.  hospitals will treat you for emergencies and for what you came in for.  although they will not treat your problems long term.  lots of time they will refer you to specialty services, although those do need money for those.  also unless your advocating someone go to the er 365 days a year so they can get blood pressure medication daily, then our current system does not work for people who need medication.  also our current system is absolutely horrible for treating the mental health of the homeless which is a huge contributor to the homeless problem.   

 

your the one who was complaining about obamacare not covering everyone, so then if that's a complaint of yours and it is a legit one, whats your solution?  how does everyone get health insurance.

In California there is a system of county hospitals, but you can go to any hospital in an emergency. Once you are stabilized you are moved to a county hospital. As far as medication and other needs are concerned, those are again supplied through the county hospital system. When I was unemployed in the late 1990s I received all the medical care I needed through the county, and that included medication and other services. People are required to pay what they can afford, but while I was unemployed, I paid nothing, because I had not income. This country has been taking care of everyone for decades, and it has been illegal to turn people away from medical care. There are also other options for getting medications and other services when you do not have the money to pay. So establishing Obamacare was completely unnecessary for health reasons. The real reason for the creation of Obamacare is power. The federal government wants to control health care by determining what is and is not covered and by forcing people - regardless of their ability to pay - to buy an insurance plan that really provides them with nothing. The bronze plan here in California - with government subsidies (i.e., taxes shifted to me from other people) - will cost me about $80 a month with a $5,000 deductible, meaning I will be paying - if I bought a plan, which I am not going to do - $80 a month and then up $5,000 dollars more before I get any real benefits. I cannot afford to pay $80 a month, because I have debts to pay, bills to pay, and rent to pay, plus - it is hard to believe - but I have to buy my own food.

 

So is establishing a costly new federal bureaucracy a good idea? No, I do not think so.

 

Is having the IRS involved in our health care system a good idea? No. I think that is in fact the dumbest idea I have seen the government put forward in my lifetime.

 

People who need medical care, especially those in most need will get it, but I do see a group that is struggling, i.e., the working poor, like myself and my brother. Sadly Obamacare is going to screw us over, because it will force us to buy a product that we cannot afford, and penalize us if we do not do what the federal government wants. I know what I can afford to buy and what I cannot afford to buy, and I see no reason for the federal government to try and control my budget, especially when it cannot even control its own spending.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

not every single elderly person has family to care for them.  just like not every child has family to care for them.  what do you purpose for children who's parents are killed/die and they have no family to care for them?  or elderly who have no family to care for them?  not everyone has family to care for them when they can't care for themselves.  so what do you purpose for those people?  or did you just feel like ranting off topic and making claims of moral superiority?

Have you ever taken care of an elderly person? Do you know what he or she goes through? Do you know what the person's caregiver goes through?

 

I am going to tell you about one of the many frustrating things that my mother and I experienced in dealing with the federal government. As back story I should say that my mother and father paid for their medical insurance throughout their working lives and during their retirement. My father died at the age of 58 in 1989 of pancreatic cancer, and although it is sad that he died so young, in one sense my father's end of life experiences were easier to handle than my mother's, because he had not been forced to sign up for Medicare and all the bureaucratic nonsense that that entails.

 

On the other hand, my mother, when she reached retirement age was required to sign up for Medicare, and that is when the hell for her (and for me as her caregiver) began. While her own health insurance was primary, things went fairly smoothly, but once Medicare got involved things were constantly delayed. All the doctors taking care of my mother during her illness were second guessed by a bureaucrat who did not know my mother or her condition at all (except through written reports). It was hell. When my mother, who was suffering from emphysema and the early stages of lung cancer, fell and broke her hip, things were emotionally tumultuous for both of us and added to the turmoil of that time was the fear brought on by the constant interference of Medicare representatives. My mother was supposed to go into a nursing home, but Medicare denied her admittance because they said her hip fracture was not "bad enough" to warrant admission. So the doctors informed my mother and me that she would be released to my care at home. I was concerned, because I suffer from partial paralysis to the left side of my body as a result of having contracted viral encephalitis some years ago. But over the course of a few days, with the physical therapist showing me what to do in moving my mom around and caring for her basic needs, I adjusted to the idea that I would take care of my mother at home. I felt pretty confident that if we had the things I needed that I could handle the situation. Then the problems started, first Medicare did not want to provide a hospital bed for my mother, again saying that my mother's condition did not warrant it (of course the Medicare representative had never seen my mother, so how he made this determination is beyond me). But the doctors at the hospital worked with Medicare and got them to finally agree to a hospital bed. It took two days to get Medicare to agree, so my mom was in the hospital for two additional days at a cost estimated by our doctor of about $20,000. So Medicare - in order to avoid paying a monthly rental for a hospital bed - paid $20,000 extra by delaying my mother's release from the hospital. When the bed finally arrived at my mother's house the technician set it up, and things looked good. But when the hospital doctor requested a bedside commode, Medicare denied the item, once again saying that my mother's condition did not warrant a bedside commode. The reason for this denial was that my mother's bedroom at her house had an attached bathroom, and so the Medicare representative told the doctor that my mom should be able to get to the bathroom with my help (or even on her own). The doctor again told the Medicare representative that my mother could not walk. That she was bedridden. This made no impression on the Medicare representative. So the doctor appealed the decision and got the run around for three days, until finally he said that he would refuse to release my mother from the hospital without a bedside commode. Two days later Medicare relented and agreed to provide a bedside commode for my mother. So my mother was kept in the hospital ten days beyond her original release date at a cost of somewhere in excess of 10,000 a day by Medicare's attempt to save money by not supplying a hospital bed with a monthly bill (if my memory serves me it was about $600 a month), and a bedside commode that probably cost around $100 dollars total.  

 

Do I want the federal government in charge of health care? No, and I say that because of the experiences I had in taking care of my mother for seven years. Medicare was hell. Thank God my mom's doctors did all they could to get around that idiotic bureaucratic roadblocks that could have harmed my mother's health.

 

 

Postscript: I can relate more horror stories if it is helpful, e.g., the period of time when my mother was denied a high flow oxygen concentrator because according to the Medicare representative my mother's condition did not warrant it. According to him her blood oxygen level was too high for her to be given a high flow concentrator. But my mother's pulmonologist said that the Medicare representative was only looking at my mother's resting blood oxygen, and that when my mother moved around her blood oxygen level - a reading that was also listed on her chart - would drop below 88 percent, which is very dangerous because it can cause brain damage if that low level is allowed to go on for any length of time. Evidently the Medicare representative expected my mother to be complete immobile at all times. It was only after the third time I had to call 911 and have my mother taken to the emergency room that Medicare finally indicated that perhaps my mother needed a high flow concentrator. Medicare endangered my mother's life, and could have caused her irreparable brain damage if I had not known what to do in the emergencies that THEY caused.

[God the Father]

classic example of why society as a whole is falling apart today.  its all about me, me, me and my money.  screw everyone else, its my money.  why should I ever help those less fortunate then me.  why should I care about anyone but myself.  why should I be charitable. if a child loses both their parents and has no one to support them, well smells of elderberries for them. I don't care about them or anyone else but myself and my money.

 

the difference between today and the WWII generation is startling.  they cared about helping their common man and working as a whole to improve the world.  this generation only cares about me, myself and I.  sad, very sad how far we have fallen.

 

It seems like it's all about you, you, you, and your money. You seem to be refusing to step up to the plate and help those poor starving children. It's so easy to ask me to do it though, right? Being "charitable" is not about turning your money over to a man in a suit and a black mask, for him to distribute to the "poor" residing in the bottom of his own pocket. It's about looking after your family and community and working hard every day to improve your standard of living. It's mind-boggling how you've managed to reverse this. Liberal voters, influenced by liberal media figures and educators, have abandoned work ethic, faith, and family values in favor of the Lord Protector State. Did they have food stamps and healthcare at Plymouth Rock?

 

I agree that it would be cool to have an organization of faithful people who voluntarily contribute a little tax-exempt money every week to support the sick and needy. I am not sure if there has been an institution like this for the past two thousand years, but if so, I think it could be a really positive force in society.

 

Your invocation of the "WWII generation" is bizarre, given what many of them thought/think of the welfare system*. I live on a military installation and we've had to deal with reductions in services, not to mention we're slashing guys in our security and support elements*. Welfare spending is unsustainable and out of control, with social spending outstripping defense dollars by 25% even as far back as 2005*. If you think that was true while we were fighting the Third Reich, you're nuts.

 

 

*http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/welfareode.asp

*http://www.armytimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013310090005

*http://cnsnews.com/news/article/welfare-state-grows-nearly-19-under-obama-almost-1-trillion-year

*http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2011/04/22/americas-ever-expanding-welfare-empire/2/ (third paragraph)

 

P.S. Apotheoun makes good arguments about government involvement in the private sector; I apologize for the irrelevant wall of text I've constructed in an attempt to counter the claim that my distaste for handouts is somehow buckling the nation at its knees.

Edited October 12, 2013 by God the Father

[havok579257]

It seems like it's all about you, you, you, and your money. You seem to be refusing to step up to the plate and help those poor starving children. It's so easy to ask me to do it though, right? Being "charitable" is not about turning your money over to a man in a suit and a black mask, for him to distribute to the "poor" residing in the bottom of his own pocket. It's about looking after your family and community and working hard every day to improve your standard of living. It's mind-boggling how you've managed to reverse this. Liberal voters, influenced by liberal media figures and educators, have abandoned work ethic, faith, and family values in favor of the Lord Protector State. Did they have food stamps and healthcare at Plymouth Rock?

 

I agree that it would be cool to have an organization of faithful people who voluntarily contribute a little tax-exempt money every week to support the sick and needy. I am not sure if there has been an institution like this for the past two thousand years, but if so, I think it could be a really positive force in society.

 

Your invocation of the "WWII generation" is bizarre, given what many of them thought/think of the welfare system*. I live on a military installation and we've had to deal with reductions in services, not to mention we're slashing guys in our security and support elements*. Welfare spending is unsustainable and out of control, with social spending outstripping defense dollars by 25% even as far back as 2005*. If you think that was true while we were fighting the Third Reich, you're nuts.

 

 

*http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/welfareode.asp

*http://www.armytimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013310090005

*http://cnsnews.com/news/article/welfare-state-grows-nearly-19-under-obama-almost-1-trillion-year

*http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2011/04/22/americas-ever-expanding-welfare-empire/2/ (third paragraph)

 

P.S. Apotheoun makes good arguments about government involvement in the private sector; I apologize for the irrelevant wall of text I've constructed in an attempt to counter the claim that my distaste for handouts is somehow buckling the nation at its knees.

 

Man, I didn't know you live with me and know what I do with my money and time. 

 

I also love the fact that anyone who doesn't agree with your attitude of me, me, me is a liberal.  It must be so nice to categorize people into to group.  Man its so easy to see the world as conservative and liberal and nothing in between.

 

Let me ask you something then, if tomorrow the government stopped all welfare programs do you think the church could suddenly support all those who can not support themselves?  How many people pay taxes into a welfare program who if they didn't have to pay taxes would not give a single cent to charity?  I would argue an extremely large amount.  Lots of americans have your attitude.  Its your money and it would be better for someone to die than get a single cent of your money.  Unless you have some solution how to get money to all those who can't help themselves.  I would love to hear this grand idea of yours.

[havok579257]

Have you ever taken care of an elderly person? Do you know what he or she goes through? Do you know what the person's caregiver goes through?

 

I am going to tell you about one of the many frustrating things that my mother and I experienced in dealing with the federal government. As back story I should say that my mother and father paid for their medical insurance throughout their working lives and during their retirement. My father died at the age of 58 in 1989 of pancreatic cancer, and although it is sad that he died so young, in one sense my father's end of life experiences were easier to handle than my mother's, because he had not been forced to sign up for Medicare and all the bureaucratic nonsense that that entails.

 

On the other hand, my mother, when she reached retirement age was required to sign up for Medicare, and that is when the hell for her (and for me as her caregiver) began. While her own health insurance was primary, things went fairly smoothly, but once Medicare got involved things were constantly delayed. All the doctors taking care of my mother during her illness were second guessed by a bureaucrat who did not know my mother or her condition at all (except through written reports). It was hell. When my mother, who was suffering from emphysema and the early stages of lung cancer, fell and broke her hip, things were emotionally tumultuous for both of us and added to the turmoil of that time was the fear brought on by the constant interference of Medicare representatives. My mother was supposed to go into a nursing home, but Medicare denied her admittance because they said her hip fracture was not "bad enough" to warrant admission. So the doctors informed my mother and me that she would be released to my care at home. I was concerned, because I suffer from partial paralysis to the left side of my body as a result of having contracted viral encephalitis some years ago. But over the course of a few days, with the physical therapist showing me what to do in moving my mom around and caring for her basic needs, I adjusted to the idea that I would take care of my mother at home. I felt pretty confident that if we had the things I needed that I could handle the situation. Then the problems started, first Medicare did not want to provide a hospital bed for my mother, again saying that my mother's condition did not warrant it (of course the Medicare representative had never seen my mother, so how he made this determination is beyond me). But the doctors at the hospital worked with Medicare and got them to finally agree to a hospital bed. It took two days to get Medicare to agree, so my mom was in the hospital for two additional days at a cost estimated by our doctor of about $20,000. So Medicare - in order to avoid paying a monthly rental for a hospital bed - paid $20,000 extra by delaying my mother's release from the hospital. When the bed finally arrived at my mother's house the technician set it up, and things looked good. But when the hospital doctor requested a bedside commode, Medicare denied the item, once again saying that my mother's condition did not warrant a bedside commode. The reason for this denial was that my mother's bedroom at her house had an attached bathroom, and so the Medicare representative told the doctor that my mom should be able to get to the bathroom with my help (or even on her own). The doctor again told the Medicare representative that my mother could not walk. That she was bedridden. This made no impression on the Medicare representative. So the doctor appealed the decision and got the run around for three days, until finally he said that he would refuse to release my mother from the hospital without a bedside commode. Two days later Medicare relented and agreed to provide a bedside commode for my mother. So my mother was kept in the hospital ten days beyond her original release date at a cost of somewhere in excess of 10,000 a day by Medicare's attempt to save money by not supplying a hospital bed with a monthly bill (if my memory serves me it was about $600 a month), and a bedside commode that probably cost around $100 dollars total.  

 

Do I want the federal government in charge of health care? No, and I say that because of the experiences I had in taking care of my mother for seven years. Medicare was hell. Thank God my mom's doctors did all they could to get around that idiotic bureaucratic roadblocks that could have harmed my mother's health.

 

 

Postscript: I can relate more horror stories if it is helpful, e.g., the period of time when my mother was denied a high flow oxygen concentrator because according to the Medicare representative my mother's condition did not warrant it. According to him her blood oxygen level was too high for her to be given a high flow concentrator. But my mother's pulmonologist said that the Medicare representative was only looking at my mother's resting blood oxygen, and that when my mother moved around her blood oxygen level - a reading that was also listed on her chart - would drop below 88 percent, which is very dangerous because it can cause brain damage if that low level is allowed to go on for any length of time. Evidently the Medicare representative expected my mother to be complete immobile at all times. It was only after the third time I had to call 911 and have my mother taken to the emergency room that Medicare finally indicated that perhaps my mother needed a high flow concentrator. Medicare endangered my mother's life, and could have caused her irreparable brain damage if I had not known what to do in the emergencies that THEY caused.

 

 

and this answered my question how?

[Apotheoun]

and this answered my question how?

Yes it is answer to your question, because it highlights why the federal government should not be in control of health care in this country. I say leave things exactly as they are. America has the best health care system in the world, and no one is left out. Anyone in need will be given care. Obamacare on the other hand is about power, and federal bureaucrats - as I said in my last post - have no place in making decisions about a person's health care. It may be okay in your book that my mother's life was threatened by interference from Medicare, and perhaps you do not care if people suffer brain damage, but I do. Keep the government out of health care.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Apotheoun

[havok579257]

Yes it is answer to your question, because it highlights why the federal government should not be in control of health care in this country. I say leave things exactly as they are. America has the best health care system in the world, and no one is left out. Anyone in need will be given care. Obamacare on the other hand is about power, and federal bureaucrats - as I said in my last post - have no place in making decisions about a person's health care. It may be okay in your book that my mother's life was threatened by interference from Medicare, and perhaps you do not care if people suffer brain damage, but I do. Keep the government out of health care.

 

 

Its either delusional thinking or lying to say no one is left out for healthcare in this country.  People are not left out of emergency services but emergency services are a small part of overall healthcare.  People are left out of healthcare all the time.  Heck I would say the mental health patients are left out more than others.  Although I guess you can go off in wonderland and live there if you think this system we have is the perfect system where people are left out, where you can go bankrupt receiving emergency medical services, where you can be denied healthcare due to a pre-existing condition.  If this is perfect to you, I don't know what to say. 

 

when did I ever say I support obaamcare or government healthcare?  never said.  I fact I specifically said I don't like obamacare.