CrossCuT Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 Because over the course of my lifetime the majority of laws passed by the federal government have simply been about increasing federal power and restricting liberty. The federal government is no longer an institution of limited enumerated powers, and that became quite clear when the Supreme Court ruling on Obamacare came out. Technically Congress now has unlimited power and can require that a person engage in commerce even when he does not wish to do so. Healthcare access is not solely a commercial issue, its a social well being issue. Aside from the individual mandate, what laws has the fed gov passed that you feel have restricted your freedoms? Every time the government does anything, it removes value from the private economy. Every single time. In some cases (public education and infrastructure) we assume the long term gains outmatch the short term losses. In some cases the value-lost is (arguably) worth the law-and-order established, but the returns diminish. At our current level of bureacracy (http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2013/10/lets-have-government-sale.html) the returns have diminished immeasurably. The returns are negative. Sticking with your own example, can you please elaborate on what the short term losses for establishing a public school system are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 well the problem is for the vast majority voting for a person is voting for a party platform. Most all republicans or democrats vote according to party platforms. I'm not Republican or Independent. I'm right smack dab left of center though, within a couple percent, and I ain't voting for a parrot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Healthcare access is not solely a commercial issue, its a social well being issue. Aside from the individual mandate, what laws has the fed gov passed that you feel have restricted your freedoms? My point still stands, because if Congress can regulate inactivity then it can make people do anything it wants. It just has to say that it is in the public interest, which is a very broad term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 My point still stands, because if Congress can regulate inactivity then it can make people do anything it wants. It just has to say that it is in the public interest, which is a very broad term. So you cant list any examples of what the gov has passed apart from the individual mandate that has restricted your freedoms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 So you cant list any examples of what the gov has passed apart from the individual mandate that has restricted your freedoms? Who knows what will happen in the future. Obamacare is a massive expansion of the federal governments powers. If the government can make you buy one thing, it can make you buy anything. Now, there is a limit, but only in the sense that - like in my case - I cannot afford to buy a healthcare plan. Unless the government mandates more money for me to live on, which so far it has not seen fit to do. That you are not concerned about a massive increase in federal power (beyond its actual enumerated powers) is sad to see, but at least I am 50 years old, and so I will not live long enough to see this country fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) Who knows what will happen in the future. Obamacare is a massive expansion of the federal governments powers. If the government can make you buy one thing, it can make you buy anything. Now, there is a limit, but only in the sense that - like in my case - I cannot afford to buy a healthcare plan. Unless the government mandates more money for me to live on, which so far it has not seen fit to do. That you are not concerned about a massive increase in federal power (beyond its anctual enumerated powers) is sad to see, but at least I am 50 years old, and so I will not live long enough to see this country fall. Ooooh! So when you said throughout your lifetime you meant your lifetime in the future? Also, if you cant pay for health insurance and you are below a certain percent of the poverty line, the government offers subsidies up to 90% of the cost. And even if you arent below that cut off and you cant pay, the government will still help out. Edited October 12, 2013 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God the Father Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Sticking with your own example, can you please elaborate on what the short term losses for establishing a public school system are? OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!!!! dollars of public money per student per year. http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/library/chart-graph/actual-and-forecast-expenditures-and-pupil-spending-public-elementary-and-secondary-schools-1970-202?library_node=78600 Long term productivity gains from the contributions of publicly-educated non-morons probably justify this short-term cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) Ooooh! So when you said throughout your lifetime you meant your lifetime in the future? Also, if you cant pay for health insurance and you are below a certain percent of the poverty line, the government offers subsidies up to 90% of the cost. And even if you arent below that cut off and you cant pay, the government will still help out. Thanks, I am not below the poverty line as far as the government is concerned, but alas I do not have the money to spare in order to buy an insurance plan (with a $5,000 deductible - truly hilarious). So, it is an easy choice for me, I will choose to pay my bills and keep a roof over my head and forego Obamacare insurance. I suppose I can simply opt for the tax penalty. Although since there apparently is no enforcement of the penalty (beyond the IRS taking the money out of any tax refund I may get in April), I suppose I do not have to pay it. I have already changed my withholding so that I will owe money in the future at tax time. Edited October 12, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Also, if you cant pay for health insurance and you are below a certain percent of the poverty line, the government offers subsidies up to 90% of the cost. And even if you arent below that cut off and you cant pay, the government will still help out. What if a person does not want, or cannot pay, the 10 percent. Did you ever think of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Obamacare is the biggest tax hike on the poor and middle class in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God the Father Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 So, it is an easy choice for me, I will choose to pay my bills Haha, you think you have a choice? What country do you think this is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 Thanks, I am not below the poverty line as far as the government is concerned, but alas I do not have the money to spare in order to buy an insurance plan (with a $5,000 deductible - truly hilarious). So, it is an easy choice for me, I will choose to pay my bills and keep a roof over my head and forego Obamacare insurance. I suppose I can simply opt for the tax penalty. Although since there apparently is no enforcement of the penalty (beyond the IRS taking the money out of any tax refund I may get in April), I suppose I do not have to pay it. I have already changed my withholding so that I will owe money in the future at tax time. You are eligible for subsidies as long as your annual income is below 400% of the poverty line. Head over to Healthcare.gov and sort it out there. The whole purpose of the system is so situations like yours are manageable! Obamacare is the biggest tax hike on the poor and middle class in history. We are already paying tons in emergency care through our taxes for people who do not have insurance. Emergency care is more costly overall than the cost of health coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) Haha, you think you have a choice? What country do you think this is? Technically the federal government says that I do not have a choice. After all it considers this to be a mandate. But I cannot do what I cannot pay for, and based upon my budget I must choose between paying my rent or buying health insurance. I will go with paying my rent. Same goes for food. I have to eat, but I do not have to have an insurance plan that I have no money to pay for. Edited October 12, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) You are eligible for subsidies as long as your annual income is below 400% of the poverty line. Head over to Healthcare.gov and sort it out there. The whole purpose of the system is so situations like yours are manageable! We are already paying tons in emergency care through our taxes for people who do not have insurance. Emergency care is more costly overall than the cost of health coverage. Evidently you cannot read, because I said even with the tax shifts I will get (i.e., money from someone richer than me that the federal government will tax for my benefit), I cannot afford the insurance. Now if you would like to send me some money I will gladly take it. Then I will purchase health insurance, but I want the money from you for the whole year, so that I know I will have the ability to pay the monthly installments. It has the added benefit for you of being a charitable act. Maybe you can even claim it on your income taxes as a write-off. Edited October 12, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Ooooh! So when you said throughout your lifetime you meant your lifetime in the future? Also, if you cant pay for health insurance and you are below a certain percent of the poverty line, the government offers subsidies up to 90% of the cost. And even if you arent below that cut off and you cant pay, the government will still help out. I make to much to get the subsidies but I don't make enough to afford it. If I wanted to live in a card board box or give up my car instead sure but I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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